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NL 400 - Top two vs semi donk

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11-16-2008 , 03:50 AM

WCGRider

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,045

Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $463.10
BB: $506.35
UTG: $544.70
UTG+1: $400.00
MP1: $355.00
Hero (MP2): $423.65
CO: $376.00
BTN: $463.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is MP2 with Q

UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $20, 4 folds, UTG calls $16, UTG+1 calls $16

Flop: ($66.00) 8

(3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $52, UTG calls $52, UTG+1 folds

Turn: ($170.00) Q

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $128, UTG calls $128

River: ($426.00) 5

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $223.65 all in

Villain is 27/9/3. Standard?

Quote

11-16-2008 , 04:14 AM

Moneyball16

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,523

I play it the same. Besides maybe limping preflop I cant really imagine playing it different. Checking back on the river is too weak especially with your image.

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11-16-2008 , 06:45 AM

Moke

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 244

I play it same way too.

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11-16-2008 , 03:15 PM

dankness3

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,439

I guess u kinda h ave to? lol im also guessin u posted this cuz he had a set.

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11-16-2008 , 03:52 PM

dudeldo

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 623

standard

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11-16-2008 , 05:14 PM

Ricky1231

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,663

Standard but quick question. Under what circumstances would you consider not shoving this river?

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11-16-2008 , 07:41 PM

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky1231

Standard but quick question. Under what circumstances would you consider not shoving this river?

Idk if you're asking rider or just posing it generally, I would say if it was 4 way or more to the flop I probably wouldn't shove. I definitely wouldn't shove if I wasn't the pfr or if I thought opp was a nit.

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11-16-2008 , 08:02 PM

Ricky1231

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,663

Question is open to everyone of course. Assuming the board doesn't chagne but maybe player type changes or pf action changes or just in general when would you consider checking back this hand on river.

please don't fill me up with a bunch of "decide what opponents range is and what his valling range will be and how often you ahve the best hand and use a calculator etc..." stuff lol =p

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11-17-2008 , 12:16 AM

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

FWIW, I raise a bit more pre ($24) and a bit more on turn ($140+). Either way, doing anything but pushing the river would be an extremely rare case, so rare I can't think of one right now.

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11-17-2008 , 10:07 AM

#10

13_Xerxes

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,968

I check the turn for pot control.

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11-17-2008 , 03:33 PM

#11

nation

Indian Nightmare

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 8,583

um, maybe im a nit, but against that type of player im checking the river behind. they almost always have a missed diamond or made flush there, not a hand that would call a shove with less than two pair.

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11-17-2008 , 03:35 PM

#12

nation

Indian Nightmare

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 8,583

i mean i guess i don't always check behind river. maybe i check behind turn? i hate betting 3 streets all in though with two pair when 3 diamonds hit the flop. i mean you're 3 handed, and you faced some pretty stiff resistance, he called 128 on the turn. this just doesnt look that great for your hand when you get called on the river.

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11-17-2008 , 06:47 PM

#13

MaKiaVeli

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13_Xerxes

I check the turn for pot control.

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11-17-2008 , 07:32 PM

#14

WireySpinde11

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 606

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKiaVeli

But isn't this the drawiest board of all time, vs a guy who is c/calling?

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11-18-2008 , 01:21 AM

#15

GoMukYaSelf

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,129

looks good to me

i dont like checking behind on turn

shove on river is meh but i think you can always make an argument for value betting lighter than usual against calling stations

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11-18-2008 , 01:43 AM

#16

soah

Unexpected

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 61,666

checking the turn seems lolbad unless your read on him specifically makes it such that you expect to get shoved on somewhat often and won't know whether you're supposed to call it

also in certain ways I sort of agree about the thought of checking the river just because it seems like if he gets there with worse hands he will generally be folding but I think that barring a read of him being a huge slowplayer I'd go ahead and bet it because I think that [some huge chance he has a worse hand * chance he calls with it] is greater than [some small chance he has a better hand]. Most players simply don't slowplay this many streets.

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11-18-2008 , 03:48 AM

#17

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,304

I probably bet 3 streets here given the action.

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11-18-2008 , 08:12 AM

#18

Carnivore

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,605

I check the river, because I don't really understand what I would expect him to call with that I beat. I beat the missed draws, so I don't need to bet that. And I beat lower 2 two pair hands, but if he can have those then he can also have a straight or 50 different flushes. I think a "semi-donk" doesn't call the river here with any hand weaker than yours, unless he did a limp call preflop with AA/KK and thinks he was so tricky.

Remember, donks love suited cards, and a flush is out there.

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11-19-2008 , 12:36 AM

#19

AcTiOnJaCsOn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 24,773

most straightforward hand ever?

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11-19-2008 , 12:56 AM

#20

HighStakesKid

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 39

I couldn't imagine checking this turn. That would be probably the largest mistake possible. If hes good he bets the river and you are stuck in a terrible spot even if a diamond doesnt hit. If a diamond hits you just look even stupider. There is no such thing as pot control when you just hit 2 pair with an unagressive call station looking at 3 flush cards. I would check the river. This destroys all his value of a "trap" hand. the only cards we are scared of is trips and flush. Both of these would be valued to **** if you dont end up putting in your whole stack when you have top 2. A check on the river is the correct play.

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11-19-2008 , 11:56 AM

#21

WCGRider

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,045

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcTiOnJaCsOn

most straightforward hand ever?

apparently not given people disagree on it.

Quote

11-19-2008 , 09:46 PM

#22

DoubleFly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,983

I think betting turn is more correct to price out draws. Whether you bet the river depends on if villain's a "folder" or "caller". If he's nitty and not calling unless he has you beat, don't bet. Otherwise, there are plenty of people willing to call a half-pot bet with 2nd pr on the river (it happens a few times a session), so betting in that case is fine.

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11-20-2008 , 02:39 AM

#23

pattay

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,306

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCGRider

apparently not given people disagree on it.

yeah but the people who disagree with how its played are wrong

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11-20-2008 , 03:01 AM

#24

speedle

2008 uFR HU4LOLZ Champ

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,943

Hard to see him having you beat but hard to see him calling at all.

This is nothing but standard I think.

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11-22-2008 , 02:24 AM

#25

lionking130

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 823

fire 3 3/4 pots or whatever u liek to fire ?

OR--->> check turn for good old fun & check river to look like a ****

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