Most tilting thing that i encounter at a poker table is when mega-fish min-raise their hands. Most of the time, i'm not even in the hand and it still tilts me to no end. These people have no idea how much value they're missing and i see it every single day at a poker table....all day long. I see a min-raise from an obvious fish and i roll my eyes and sigh. It's ridiculously irritating to me.

But, is it ever optimal to min-raise? If so, when? I don't think i have ever min-raised....but i wanna know if its something that i should include in my game somewhere.

There is a thread somewhere in LLSNL that is all about this. I think it was from a long time ago, pretty close to when LLSNL first began. Would have to do some digging.

i like to min raise the river against LAG fish when i have the nuts. for example a hand happened a few months back where i raised AA pre and flopped a set on a non connected rainbow flop against a guy who i knew would make a move if he smelled weakness so i checked back the flop in position.

turn J and he bet 25 i just called

river gave me the nut boat and he made the same 25 bet, i knew he couldnt have much and a large raise would just blow him off of his weak made hand range, but many of them cant fold to a min raise, because of the price they are getting. he calls with QJo

i usually only min raise when someones range is so weak given the board and my holdings that its highly unlikely they will pay more with their hand. i never minraise at any point before the river, for the same reason, they get too good of a price to call with their range. as long as i dont have a lock, they probably arent making too much of a mistake by calling

I min raise when I have a medium strength hand (TPGK) on a wet board multi way and I want to isolate the original raiser without letting drawing hands come along cheaply.

For instance, say we have a $40 pot with four players in and the flop is KT5 with a flush draw. Guy to my right leads for $30- if I have KQ here I feel I probably have the best hand, but I don't love it. I'd rather not encourage the rest of the table to come along cheaply, but I'm not exactly ready to play for stacks either. Making it $60 makes it hard for them to call without investing too much, and if the original raiser calls I can check behind in the turn to keep the pot size appropriate.

I also will do this heads up as a way to freeze the action- again with a medium strength type of hand. Often villain will get so flustered he'll just check it down.

Of course, this is totally exploitable, but it comes up so I frequently, I'm not too worried about it.

so other ppls bad play tilts you and makes you visibly display irritation. poker might not be best hobby for u.

when to minraise-vs bad players when u can exploit something silly they do.

and sometimes for thin river c/r for value vs regs that you will own forever once u do this.

In general, I only min raise (or about min raise) when I am trying to steal a pot heads up against the few opponents I identify that fold to basically any aggression as a sign that their hand must be beat. This is a small subset of nits.

I really have to see them act on it first, though, by folding to other weak bets/raises after they have made action on previous turns and by their betting almost nothing over the course of a multi hr session.

I haven't used this move in a while (like, almost a year?), and I'm not sure it's a good one, but here's a situation where I think a min-raise (especially on the turn) might be useful:

- versus an aggy player HU in position who has had the lead on early streets betting into us
- we have a mediocre hand (like TP or perhaps even a good 2nd pair)
- we have a tight image
- the board ain't drawy
- stacks are nowhere near committed

I think a minraise on the turn does have some value here in that it could get us to showdown for perhaps cheaper than facing a 3rd barrel bomb on the river (which could be tough to call), we can easily fold to a 3bet, and it's possible we could even get villain to fold a better hand.

As I say, haven't broken this one out in a while; but it's the only time I've ever used the minraise play.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Let's see. You get tilted because your opponents can't get value from their hands. I'd worry a lot more about this leak rather than worry about the fact your opponents aren't playing well.

Like anything in poker, under the right circumstances any play can be right. If I have a monster, I need a raise to get stacks in and I think the villain isn't going to call more than the minimum, I'm raising the minimum.

i think he means it more in terms like this, "jeez these fish are so bad they cant extract value at all, id be up like 8 BI if i got the hands these guys are getting, but im sitting here folding 103o hand after hand"

at least i know ive felt this way while sitting in a pond at times, it doesnt affect my play however

Min raise are for donks. Make it 2.1 and your a pro.

Minraising with the nuts is horrible by the way.

people who tilt because fish play bad tilt me.

thats about the worst thing ive ever seen written on this forum

if villain folds to 2.1x but calls 2x youre telling me that raising 2x is horrible? you should always be betting the largest amount villain is likely to call. if villain cant call anything larger then a MR then what should your bet size be.

and furthermore there could be instances where min raising can induce a bluff spaz shove.

id have to nominate the above quoted as the worst advice of the year.

Harrington mentions in HOC that shoving the nuts is usually the play with highest expectation. Does depend on situation obv.

Here's a hand I played recently. I have 22, multiway flop comes 872. I bet one calls. Effective stacks are about $400. Turn 5. I bet again he calls. River 8 (pot is abt $100 at this point). I shove abt $350. He says "well I have to call" and instacalls with 68. If he calls $100 100% of the time I make $100. If he calls $350 even just 30% of the time I make more.

Your problem is finding one problem with what I said. Instead of thinking that they're are more reasons why minraising is the incorrect play.

Goes to show you why people hate strat forms. Think before you send kid.

Jesus. Maybe the word "tilt" was the wrong word to use. Lol you think i actually meant that seeing someone min-raise in a hand that im not even involved in happens to make me play worse after? Its just kinda something that i see and it bothers me for that one second that it happens....i dont carry it into my play, for god's sake. You think i start playing my B or C game cause some moron min-raised the last hand ott? Im obv happy that they play so bad....i was kinda just talking about my impulse reaction. Telling me that poker shouldnt be my hobby? And all these other things? Drop the ego people and just answer my question please. Is it ever optimal to actually min-raise? If you have no answer, carry on please. I never asked if poker should be in my life or not.

thats not remotely relevant to what i said. obviously when someones calling range is WIDE, ie any 8 because they have trips then shoving is better than min raising. in the example i gave above on a paired board with an overcard, its very unlikely a villain is calling a large raise with second pair. the best play is to min raise, and in that situation he grimmaced, bitched and moaned and finally said how the hell can i fold to a min raise, and paid it off.

your example is so clearly not a spot to minraise i think you missed the point of my initial post and the quoted one.

im not finding one problem with what you said. you posted a shallow minded moronic post, which is absolutely incorrect, as there is never a play (except folding the nuts and calling with the nut low) that is ever absolutely correct or incorrect in poker. your narrow mindedness is why some might avoid strat forums, not because i call you out for spouting absurd one liners which are so facepalm.jpg

lol

Join Date May 2011

Join Date Dec 2004

kid

Like I said its more reasons min-raising is the wrong play while holding the nuts, then it is the right play. If your clueless on what I'm talking about, oh well.

sigh,

you should raise the amount most likely to be called by villain at a given time when you are sure you have the best hand. there will be times when you hold the nuts and villains value range will be very very very small and raising large will get him to fold. if villain is likely to call a large raise then your raise should be large. if you are in a spot where its unlikely they will call a large raise then your raise should be small. if youre clueless on what im talking about, oh well

to spell it out in simplistic terms

if villains range for calling 3x = .01% and his range for calling 2x is 25%, please tell me what the proper raise size is.

in the example i posted above i have the deck crushed. there is no way hes calling more then a min raise, as he almost didnt call as it was. why on earth would you raise more then is going to be called.

i do understand there are plenty of spots where you should raise larger. you hold a straight flush and you know villain has the nut flush and will not fold to a shove, obv go all in, im not min raising there. but if villains range is bottom pair only and will fold to anything over a min raise, then the clear play is to min raise