I like your play sucks that he folded but I expect calls here from Combos, Q9, and 33. To many bad turn cards to flat.

OP, you def. made the correct play. Feel like you're being just a tad results oriented here. Flatting is not good here, and wj94 pointed all the right reasons why.

But just to add my .02: If Villain is capable of hand reading at all, what are you raise/calling with on the flop for over 120bbs, where he thinks he could still possibly get you to fold OTT? Unless you decided not to get JTdd in on the flop, I can't think of anything. You still might not even fold that. You have pretty much all nutted hands here, 99.9% of the time. Air is almost guaranteed to shut it down on the turn. Plus, we don't have a read of Villain making plays in pots this big with air, so if it's value hands, you're ahead of his range with QQ being a cooler. Shoving is way better here AINEC.

Glad you won, continue posting hands. It was an interesting one.

Better question for OP - what are you doing with 33 here?

I know it sounds pretty nitty, but read less this deep I think I'm folding bottom set here.

Not too nitty. I could maybe see that. Would be such a sick spot readless, that's for sure.

I don't think we're 100% readless though. Let's go back to the description of the Villain. The fact that he didn't bet the river with trip kings in your first post is bad, and makes me think this player might not be that good, possibly weak. Competent players should value bet that river nearly 100% of the time.

I would add the chance that he could have an ability to overplay overpairs, which is another weak player tendency. You generally don't see weak players fast play sets, nor do they play draws all that aggressively. So add all that together, and I'm not sure I find a fold with 33. Definitely not folding 99.

Maybe I'm a leveling station, idk. lol.

I agree with all this, but I also don't see people play 6k pots with 1 pair. I feel like the bigger the pots get the more straight forward people play. And it's really rare to play with some sicko that can bluff for that much money

Agree with everything you said. This is def. never a bluff. If he had air, I'd pay Villain $100.

I'm pretty sure Villain had AA or KK, and your raise OTF got villain to put in a 3bet cause he wasn't quite sure what to do with his overpair facing a raise OTF. Hypothetically, once you flat, pot is 1500+. We've already seen Villain shut it down on later streets as he did earlier with trip kings. Plus with what you said about how straightforward people play in big pots, and generally don't continue on long with one pair, I think villain still shuts it down past the flop if you flat the 3bet, and is not gonna stack off later on unless he improves to a set, and we don't want to give a free chance for villain to improve, cause then he could stack us.

Basically, I still think you got max value.

So, if we are V in this hand and we have JTdd, how are we playing it? I might poop my pants if I flip for a 1120 BB pot.

Yea, you get in a pot like this once in how long? Your not gonna get many chances to even out the variance.

If we're in the other V's shoes how do we play AA or KK here? I think that's a really tough spot.

Thanks. Nice pot, I think this was confirmation that you made the right move, given the information you had.

I don't know what makes sense for his hand, other than a big pp. He raises pre, and his cbet gets raised. I don't know what hands make sense for him to re-raise/fold. Is he calling if you click it back? I guess he had the bottom of his 3! range... AA, KK?

I suspect that if you flatted, he's not putting any more in, unless he spikes the 2-outer. Max value rec'd.

Disagreed. Villains expect you to shove with sets and Q9s often so they would have to discount those hands somewhat if you flat. Also when you flat, since the reraise was so small, it looks like you have a FD very often or AQ. Of course villain could think you have two Q9+ alot but they also will likely think you have a draw alot.

If you shove, they'll put you on Q9 and sets and JTdd. Whether or not they call is up to question though and player dependent. Live players do stupid things.

Flatting is still optimal. There is only ~20% chance a diamond comes on turn. I expect villain to play pretty straightforward on a diamond turn. Any K, J, T, or 8 is bad for his one pair hands, but its not THAT scary a card and villain is unlikely to fold to a turn bet unless its a diamond or unless we bet really big.

^^^

its 560bb deep guys. we are only getting called by QQ there. i guess if you want the pot cause its big enough so be it but I agree about flatting here.

Grunch

You told us what you've seen of him, but nothing of what he has seen of you. Have you played a lot of hands? Been aggressive? Been caught bluffing? Recently? The latter is particularly relevant if villain pays any attention.

In the time villain has been here is $30 the standard opening raise for the table? For the room? Given all the calls I assume it is typical.

I think your flop raise looks relatively weak considering pot size. $175 more in a pot of $635? That's 1/4 pot. You could be semi-bluffing with Ax, JTo, JT, KJ, etc.

Villain's range could include AQ, AK, JT, AA, KK, and of course QQ. I want to flat but there are so many turn cards that are bad - 7 diamonds (9 is in your hand or gives you quads), 3 Ks, 3 8s. But you do have position and you have redraws if he doesn't have the one hand you are concerned about (QQ).

I think I flat and see what action he takes on the turn. He's OOP. See if he gives you more info. I think that if the turn is blank I'm willing to commit. Assuming QQ seems mubsy. If it's one of the bad cards and he checks I check back and pay off a bet on the river (or shove if board pairs.)

Am I spewing?

The problem with calling here is villian most likely shoves the turn no matter what card comes still leaving you with a decision. Personally shove middle set here. Yes, your deep and maybe you can find a fold with bottom set. However, that flop is soo draw heavy. If your afraid to get it in with middle set in these spots you need to reevaluate playing this deep. Shove the flop. There's lots of turn cards that will kill your action, or force you to fold the best hand. If Villain is lucky enough to have you beat with QQ quietly muck and say good hand. It doesn't happen that often.

FWIW, all the people needing results here and especially those announcing that winning the hand means you played it right are results oriented.

I'm not saying that means the shove was wrong (although I would have called to try to get more money in) but the fact villain had one of many possible hands in his range in this case says nothing about the quality of the decision against his range.

I don't think anyone "needed" results, just that there were ~70 posts made on a hand, well, well above the average discussion made for a hand that only has one street discussed. It was played out, thus it's fine to give results.

Please find me the person who is raising this flop with 7 people in the hand 600bb deep and flatting a re-raise with AQ or a non-nut FD or SFD so I can take all of their money. Thank you.

There is no way I'm calling off $450 on a draw just to see one card and hope that V pays me off when I hit it. Therefore, if hero has a monster draw he needs to shove it to maximize FE and know he still has at least 30-35% minimum when called. It is my personal opinion that playing this deep, the ONLY hands hero ever raises here with so many people in the hand are NFD/SFD and sets. Do you really want to play a 1200bb pot with two pair? Probably not.

Tileman, you are such a fish.. You in position, just flat the flop kid! btw text me i got a new phone.

Then you simply call any turn shove regardless of the card. He's either betting any turn WAY too often or playing very straightforward on diamond turns. I'm not folding bottom set here either

Results are on post #70.

The only damn issue we're so deep.

Does deep stack (500bb or more )mean fold any time we're non-nutted against unknowns, and passives who show aggression and don't spew non nuts, and the hand's dynamics are tending to GIAI?

If yes, then this is a fold.

If no, this is a call/repop and a cooler if he has QQ. ( 33, and all the draws, and TP/OP/2p spazzing make this a call/shove. BTW i'm assuming villains who open K9o will just as likely open 33 as they would QQ ).

I can't answer that question about deepstack play, but maybe someone can.