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Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Middle pocket pair with two pair on board

02-02-2013 , 03:14 PM
Prehand Descriptions
Villain: regular, lots of history with hero, very good thinking levelling player, extremely loose aggressive, expert at 3 barrels and floats, very rarely slowplays, currently running table over and raising every hand preflop
Hero: tight-aggressive, occasionally bluffs and 3 barrels, but more or less usually bets for value

$1/1 NL home game (7 handed)
UTG ($150)
MP ($50)
LP ($100)
Button villain ($300)
SB hero ($120)
BB ($25)

Hero is dealt 33

UTG folds, MP folds, LP limps, button villain raises to $3, SB hero calls, BB folds, LP calls.

Flop ($10) 992
Hero checks, Villain bets $6, hero raises to $17, LP folds, Villain calls.

I check-raised here because on the button, villain's preflop opening range is literally any two cards. In addition, even when he misses the flop, villain will cbet most of the time. I believe I have the best hand at this point, but I also know that even if that was the case, any turn or river could connect with villain's hand. My check-raises seem to be a good indicator of strength, so I check-raise here in an attempt to take down the pot then without giving villain a chance to outplay or outdraw me on later streets. Of course, villain flatting my bet was a less than ideal result.

Turn ($44) 2
Hero checks, villain ships all-in

This turn is interesting. It puts a two pair on the board, but I still have a hand that is stronger. However, because there is now a two pair on the board, hands like AK and AJ have gained in value because an ace now has showdown value. Knowing villain is a good player and in such situations won't value bet marginal hands such as AK when he has showdown value, I check the turn in order to exercise pot control and keep the pot small. The plan was for villain to check behind, hope he doesn't already have me beat and also misses the river, and either see a cheap showdown or, if villain bets, reevaluate the situation and worst comes to worst, call a not too large amount. Surprisingly, villain decides to all-in massive overbet the turn. This basically polarizes his range: he either has air or the 9.


Hero?
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-02-2013 , 07:34 PM
Just flat the flop if you think he's FOS and let him bluff more.

as played snap-fold turn, gg if he was bluffing but calling 3x pot shoves with a bluffcatcher that doesn't even catch all his bluffs is gross (I mean just imagine if vil takes this line with 44)

ps vil is probably not a poker god
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-02-2013 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel
Just flat the flop if you think he's FOS and let him bluff more.

as played snap-fold turn, gg if he was bluffing but calling 3x pot shoves with a bluffcatcher that doesn't even catch all his bluffs is gross (I mean just imagine if vil takes this line with 44)

ps vil is probably not a poker god
agree with this
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-02-2013 , 09:10 PM
+2
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-03-2013 , 03:52 PM
The bet on the turn is to big to call even if he has a fair amount of bluffs in his range. Looks like you have to call $100 to win $144 you're behind to often to do this.
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-03-2013 , 04:58 PM
This line looks to me like he went nuts with something like broadway diamonds that he decided to float your raise with. If he had the 9 why would he want to blow us out of the pot like that? That said, we're getting such bad odds that he only needs to have a 9 or a small pair turned into a bluff a small percentage of the time to make this a fold.

I agree with the other posters; we should fold here.
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-03-2013 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zxing
My check-raises seem to be a good indicator of strength, so I check-raise here in an attempt to take down the pot then without giving villain a chance to outplay or outdraw me on later streets.
Why do you assume Villain would fold here unless he had complete air, since you almost never have a 9 here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by zxing
I check the turn in order to exercise pot control and keep the pot small. The plan was for villain to check behind, hope he doesn't already have me beat and also misses the river...Surprisingly, villain decides to all-in massive overbet the turn.
By not betting the turn, you gave the Villain the chance to outplay you. What made you think he would play along with your desire for pot control and simply check behind on the turn?

It sounds like you only had a plan for the best possible outcome, not all the possible outcomes.
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote
02-03-2013 , 11:56 PM
If this isn't a snap fold, I don't know what is.
What are you repping on the flop?
And more important, what are you repping on the flop that you check on the turn?
Do you ever play a 9 like this? No.
Would the villain pick up on this, perhaps. Even if they don't know what you have, a lot of villain will pick up on the fact that you are not likely to check raise with a 9 here. Most people either check/call or just lead out with 9's. (Not saying either is better or worse, but it's just what normally happens at low limits.)
This looks like a decent pocket pair more often. I fold and then do whatever I can to try and get him to show me his hand. (Try to guess it, tell him he's bluffing, give him $1 to show, whatever else you think will work.) If he's willing to bluff in this spot, it can be very very beneficial to take note, and play similarly in a later hand when you do have a 9 to get him to spazz out and stack him.
Middle pocket pair with two pair on board Quote

      
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