I've found myself in situations the last few weeks where I am uncomfortable when I get deepstacked.

I've had 400-plus BBs; 260-plus BBs and 350-plus BBs. Each time I've gotten in this situation, I've literally crawled into the fetal position and felt my anus tighten.

I don't care how good the table is, I turn into scared money and I wind up getting up and leaving to book a big win - wins that could have been bigger had I not been such a wimp.

How do you adjust to deepstack mentally? I know it's all about making the +EV play at every point, but you have to be mentally comfortable in this situation as well.

At least you made the right decision to leave(at least for the time being). If you're ever scared money you shouldn't be playing. Depends on what your goals are in poker. Do you want to become a good deep stack player? Or are you fine with just grinding wins playing 100bb poker? This isn't a loaded question either. It's something you must decide for yourself.

There are different skill sets and everything isn't for everybody. Some people short stack, some people play deep, some people play SNG's, cash, tourneys, etc.

If you're able to win consistently playing 100bb poker and are fine with booking a win once you get to 250bb and are happy with that. Then that's fine.

Or don't play in uncapped games. IMO ego is bad for your game. I like playing deepstacked personally rather than having a shorter stack, but if there is a dangerous player at the table I know will give me problems I have no problem leaving and finding a better game.

But if your goal is to play in higher stakes games which play deep and uncapped than I say you're just going to have to dive in, read, study, post, get stacked once in awhile for huge pots and learn.

You need to realize manufacturing wins is hurting your game. I was victim to this. It gives you confidence no doubt. But you don't grow as a player.

Bart put something in my head that I live by now. Play long sessions with a winning image. A winning image is so vital to playing great poker. You get away with stuff you couldn't do with a losing image. When you have a losing image stop playing. Ivey does this well also. He has a stop loss and plays for days when he is winning.

As for game play, stay away
from deep stacks unless you have strong hands or Axs,pairs. Then gradually move on to other hands. Start targeting weak players, I call them spots.

We all fall victim to it, trying to lock up wins, its part of growing as a player.

playing deep in live games is different in that it becomes very heavily a post-flop game with an emphasis on making difficult decisions on turns and rivers. when really deep pre-flop hand values become a lot less important. 70-150bb poker is kind of a mix where pre-flop is still pretty darn important and there is still enough room to play post-flop... yet at these stack sizes it will be rare to face 100bb river bets or huge river c/r's... so there are less decisions on later streets. finally, <40bb cash game poker will be entirely pre-flop and flop game.

i wouldn't really be 'scared' playing deep. i mean, its not like just because you're deep you're going to be playing tons of 500+bb pots and your stack is gonna be at risk in any hand you play. most hands in live games will still play out 'normally'. clearly, 'in theory' any hand of no limit can end up being for all your money, but in reality a lot of hands will play out the same (especially if you and your opponents don't adjust too much to stack depth)

best advice you ever gave; the manufacturing part is not valid though since he's scared to play deeper. Maybe if he said he was leaving when up a little.

I am currently dealing with this transition myself.

From what I understand you want to open your hand range quite a bit, especially in position. You need to have solid post-flop play because you will be seeing more flops to rivers. This weakens big pairs. There will be less shoving to gamble pre-flop. Since the gamble is reduced, skills like hand reading and 3-betting light needs to be strong, and be willing to fold strong.

It plays more like pot limit with the occasional monster over monster for stacks.

imo deepstack it's more of a skill game, not for the shove monkey who wants to gamble and get lucky and not worry about playing post-flop and making tough decisions.

Good Luck!

He's not manufacturing wins. He leaving because he feels uncomfortable. Which is different than simply leaving so you can write a positive number in your book.

I constantly play in 400-1000bb deep tables at 1/2 and I am very comfortable with it. I'm not sure if money is a big deal to you but just look at ur chips as a game. I never play w bills ott to help me with this aspect. As far as strategy goes you need a solid read on who isn't ever putting in large amounts of money without the nuts. Who can you value bet thinly. Who is going to run a big bluff on you. Who is still playing 100bb poker. Who has loosesned up crazy since getting deep. 3b oop w big pies against aggrressive opponents is probably the worst thing to do live. Also remember that u don't absolutely have yo get stacks in the middle with the nuts. It may not be possible. Shipping a 550bb pot is better than 350bb pot. I open up in position and call much much wider in position vs certain opponents whose ranges are narrow and who may stack off with a big pair. Suited connectors go down in value because of overflish possibility so Axs value goes up. These are just a few things buy its mostly knowong your opponents.

I'm not comfortable with deepstack situations either myself, and basically find myself nutpeddling when confronting another deepstack.

Here's a couple things I do that might help:

I'm assuming not everyone else at your table is deepstacked too? Like, there's gotta be some regular <= 100 BB stacks? Anyhoo, I try to seat change so that another deepstack doesn't have good position on me, especially if I feel that player is decent. I then kinda nutpeddle against him when we're in a pot together, otherwise play my regular game when involved with smaller stacks.

If a large amount of people at my table also have deepstacks and I feel are decent players, I might just table change to a smaller stacked table.

I realize this doesn't help me at with deepstacked situations, but there's nothing wrong with recognizing my current limitations / strengths / etc. and exploiting those by taking action to avoid situations where I might be in over my head.

GcluelessNLnoobG

i think the bolded is far, far less important than:
i) hand reading, and
ii) ability to fold 'strong' hands in terms of absolute strength

I think that is really important. Too many people in poker will have huge egos. It is def important to realize when you might not feel like the favorite in a game, or when there are stronger players who can put you to very tough spots.

Recently, I went to play and I got a seat where to my direct left was a dude who i) is/was a 200/400 LHE online pro, ii) has been playing poker for a living for ~10 years, iii) abuses position and is an insane lag. So, I just bought in for 100BB instead of usual 200BB. Felt more comfortable.

Understanding your limitations is very important. It shows a logical and disciplined approach to the game. Also, once you start to learn about where you have trouble, you can start thinking more about how to adjust and improve your own game.

is leaving +473 really 'manufacturing' a win? i mean, yeah, i want to leave up, but i could drop $200 and still be a big winner.

I'm gonna go ahead and give OP props for being able to leave a game so disciplined. When I get myself into similar situations, example; I'm tired and the table isn't so great, but I'm stuck and want to keep playing... I normally continue playing. Good on you for knowing yourself and knowing when to quit.

In terms of my recommendations. I have a couple. First, make sure your table position is good. Sitting to the right of the two big stacks is bad news. Second, AVOID playing marginal hands versus strong opponents oop when your deep. Example: 300bb effective, 1 limper, good TAG (suited BW, KJo+, 77-AA, few SCs) raises 6bb in CO, your in the SB with JQo/KJo/KQo/ATo=fold.

My point exactly, "I feel uncomfortable because I'm 200, 300 or 400 bigs deep". Is the wrong mind frame trust me. You should feel the same as if your a 100 bigs deep. We play in capped games, its not like your entire stack is at risk. You control what goes in the middle.

The reason he feels uncomfortable is because he wants to lock a win up. Everyone goes threw it. You should never leave a good game because your deep stack. With a winning image that is the time to put in "overtime" as I call it.

I used to reach a certain amount and be like "I can buy this or that". Now, I will stay until the game breaks or a certain fish leaves and no fish doesn't get replaced.

IbelieveNKolb is saying this in his post. But a true grinder like myself will decipher his words.

I would say that those are a fold a lot of the time at 100bb. Its close with KQ, but QJ,KJ,AT are easy folds. Obv, depends a bit on villain. SB is such a bad location.

lol ok. ibelieve if you want to be a "true grinder" like PB keep playing at the table even if you feel you are scared money and uncomfortable. It is +EV. You will likely make good decisions for your stack.

It doesn't matter that you may have already been playing for 15hrs. Mental states, physical well being, and all that other garbage doesn't matter as long as you have a big stack in front of you. If you're winning it's time to put in the "overtime". True grinders know this.

Right, it depends on the villain, What I'm trying to say is these hands that are marginal call/fold decisions in 100BB games vs decent opponents become folds deeper vs good opposition.

OP, the worst thing you can do to yourself and to your game is to leave the table because you are afraid to lose. If you have the discipline to get up and leave, you should have the discipline to stay in the game, and consider it a practice to play deep stack.

Here is what you need to do....
Tighten up to the level of a nit/ play only fundamentally correct poker
Pay close attention to everything that is going at the table, and I mean everything, every little detail, I.e. sizings, positions, post flop tendencies, try to pick up tells , whatever little information you can gather as you're sitting on the sidelines.
If you fold, let's say QJo to a raise in MP, continue with the hand in your head and imagine what you'd do on every street if you were in the hand based on action, your opponents and board texture, your read , etc.
DO NOT get bored and start playing just because you are bored.
Fold when in a hand even if you feel like you have the best of it but it is a marginal situation. Remember you are staying to practice and build your mental confidence, not to win money.

Focus focus focus.

Gradually build up your mental confidence, and you will be on your way to greatness in deep stack poker

GRUNCH

The first question I have from your post would relate to your bankroll. How adequately rolled are you for the game, and how willing are you to accept variance?

You must consider that playing a hand optimally deep can meaning getting in 300 BB with the turned nuts with 70% equity. It's a great spot, but it's very easy to lose 300BB. While it's a +EV play, it's not like you get 300 BB in the middle that much with the nuts anyway.

If you're not comfortable putting that much money at risk, then picking up is the correct play. There is no law that requires you to play 300 BB deep just because you're the best player and are winning. In fact, leaving with a profit is the reason you went there in the first place, and being able to quit properly is more important to being a winning player than your UTG opening range for example.

However, if you're rolled for the game and want to be a serious player, you have to be willing to accept a 4 BI downswing on 1 hand. That is a psychological hurdle as much as it is a strategic one. Of course, the reward of being deep is the opportunity to exploit your opponents to a much greater degree.

It sounds to me like your problem isn't strategy.

Just play your game. One thing to note is that when you are value betting an opponent with a value draw heavy range but not as many nut combos such as after a 3 pre-flop you can Bet Pot-Size and larger bets with a really wide range of their preflop holdings.

i can relate to your situation op, whenever i get deepstacked i feel somewhat uncomfortable even though im a big stack.

300-400b is deep when your playing a cash game, but imagine being 800bb+ deep, that's when it really takes me out of my comfort zone.

im guessing we all get this feeling because it represents a decent chunk of our bankroll.

for example last night i had a great session in a very juicy 1-2$ game where I was sitting with a little over 2800$ and I felt like the best decision for me was to cash out and call it a night.

when a session like that represents more then 25-30% of your br, i think it puts you into scared $$ territory & takes you off your A game. but i do agree when your sitting with a stack that represents a chunk of your roll, its best to get up..cause if you go broke its a pretty big blow mentally to your ego.

well, i found myself deep again wednesday night, so i got some practice at it.

i was up more than $500 and sitting on $700-plus after a couple of hours. i wound up cashing out for $543 ($343 profit) but the goal was to not play scared and just play the best i could no matter what.

the only hand i really sphinctered was when i raised with AQ suited and c-bet a TT4 board with two clubs. I think i let my opponent take the pot when I checked back the club turn and then the river. he had just moved to the table 20 minutes earlier and it wasn't yet apparent just how tilted he was. he took forever to call the flop. he only had about $80 left after calling my flop bet. i should have just shoved the turn and forced him into a decision.

oh well, it was a good experience. hopefully, i can continue to find myself with 300 BB stacks a few times a week, lol.

And even then that may not have been the best decision OTT. If he shoved river his range seems a bit polarized. Maybe he was even acting there and flopped gin. I mean who leavs 80$ back anyways. (plenty of villains dont really pay attention to stack to pot ratios anyways at 1/2 though. Been victim of giving people too much credit in past)

It doesn't matter how 'deep' you were if your opponent clearly had <100bb.

Btw, with a single raise and 3 pot sized barrels it is impossible to get in more than 100bb. When stacks get deep the only way to get stacks in (without massively overbetting) is for bet/raises to go in...

tbh, you should deff adjust to playing 200-300bb stacks without any fear because eventually if your in the right game, your going to be playing with players who will be weaker then you and they will be super deepstacked up to 800bb+ and that's where all the $$ from cash games come from..from exploiting an opponents preflop/flop/turn/river mistakes.

It's only deep stack play vs another 300bb+ opponent. Just keep effective stack size in mind...