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Loose passive dream table - max value question.

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02-05-2012 , 07:32 PM

elcebro

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 619

Same table as this thread.

3 Loose passive ******s and me.

This guys officialy suck at poker. They call every suited cards, fit or fold, never play back at you and never raise w/o the nuts. I'm betting every second hand for past 3 hours and they don't mind it.

The hand:
Hero is BU [$500] is dealt 7

raises to $10.
Villain is SB [$300] calls $10.
Flop:
A42
Villain check calls $10. (They don't pay attention to cbet sizing, if they don't hit they fold, so I'm just betting the minimum to win this if he missed).
Turn:
A425
Villain check calls $35.
Flop:
A425Q
Villain bets $35. ($220 behind).
Hero ..?

Hope no one is calling here, the question is - how much do you raise?

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02-05-2012 , 08:02 PM

Pug Walker

adept

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 854

Due to villain c/c 35 OTT, then leading out 35 OTR, I make it ~80-100 and expect to see some A/X 2p or maybe even A3

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02-06-2012 , 12:25 AM

AcePlayerDeluxe

1st Gear Pinned

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,252

Really depends on how much they value their hands. There is an obvious straight on the board and any raise looks strong. I could see a minraise here if they are not likely to pay off and if they super over value a hand like 2pr we could go for more.

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02-06-2012 , 01:08 AM

captZEEbo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,991

I make it like 125 or so.

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02-06-2012 , 04:29 AM

fun101

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,237

depends on your image, i might just make some sort of redculus overbet to like $200 but I know i make it atleast $100. They dont expect u to raise to $10 pre with a 3 so they will think its bluffy...also $200 only has to be calle half as often as $100 to have the same profitability.

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02-06-2012 , 05:39 AM

Dragon Ash

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 627

Villain bet $35 into a pot of $110? Egads. You probably couldn't believe your luck.

Normally I'd raise to $120 or so, but I can't imagine villain calling with the obvious straight on the board unless he has the only hand that beats you. So maybe just min-raise or so to $70 and expect to see a lot of 2-pair hands?

Also....fold pre. Seriously. 73? I don't care how bad the table is; that's just going to encourage bad habits...

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02-06-2012 , 05:44 AM

Dying Actors

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,966

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Ash

Villain bet $35 into a pot of $110? Egads. You probably couldn't believe your luck.

Normally I'd raise to $120 or so, but I can't imagine villain calling with the obvious straight on the board unless he has the only hand that beats you. So maybe just min-raise or so to $70 and expect to see a lot of 2-pair hands?

Also....fold pre. Seriously. 73? I don't care how bad the table is; that's just going to encourage bad habits...

massively disagree. keep playing anything even remotely playable at this table.

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02-06-2012 , 05:51 AM

elcebro

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 619

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Ash

Villain bet $35 into a pot of $110? Egads. You probably couldn't believe your luck.

Normally I'd raise to $120 or so, but I can't imagine villain calling with the obvious straight on the board unless he has the only hand that beats you. So maybe just min-raise or so to $70 and expect to see a lot of 2-pair hands?

Also....fold pre. Seriously. 73? I don't care how bad the table is; that's just going to encourage bad habits...

Disagree, IP I can muck all my hands at showdiwn and still show a profit, because this guys are playbook illustrations of fit or fold lp fish. They don't adjust, they are purely lvl 1 thinkers (and have trouble reading hands correctly). I'm just running over this table, and no one even tries to play back at me. Again I'll play null null OTB at this table.

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02-06-2012 , 06:14 AM

TheLSUMaverick

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 132

With your image I might go for a shove here. If you bet 120 he knows you're never folding to a shove so you must have a good hand. If you min raise to 70 you really seem to be value owning him but are possibly leaving money on the table.

However, when you shove it really polarizes your range. In his head hell say "well, either he's got the 3 or hes got nothin." and you'll be surprised at how many times donks talk themselves into calls here.

Only problem with this logic is...most donks hear the words all in and soil themselves.

If he's a scared money donk- bet $75
If he's not- shove 60% of the time, bet $75 30% and $125 10%

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02-06-2012 , 06:24 AM

#10

PokerIsFrustrating

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,756

Is he really calling $220 that much less than he's calling $125? They're purely level 1 thinkers. They probably don't even think about how much the raise is. They think "I have 2 pair, I have to call."

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02-06-2012 , 06:36 AM

#11

TheLSUMaverick

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerIsFrustrating

Ditto

I would rather sacrifice the $35 your losing from the times he calls the min raise, for a very good chance of stacking him given your image and your polarized range. Go for the shove.

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02-06-2012 , 01:08 PM

#12

TheSalesman

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 643

Shove. Scared money might fold a 3, fearing the 3 6. Anyone else pays you off with 2 pair or better, maybe even a big ace.

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02-06-2012 , 02:15 PM

#13

trevdog

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 310

shove bc of image.

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02-06-2012 , 02:30 PM

#14

jbull

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 192

Shove here. shove is in line with your table image to get called a high percentage. One unlikely hand with 3 combos beats you. If he has called pre vs a raise with 36 suited than so be it. he most likely has two pair, and will make a level one call.

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02-07-2012 , 02:54 AM

#15

elcebro

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 619

Hmm I was really surprised by the fact that at start people adovocated as small as minraising. I'm a maniac, he has shown that he loves his hand, we have effective nuts, what else do you guys need to go for max value?

I showed and got quickly called by AQ.

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