Hi everyone, I just had a 5/T hand a couple days ago where the preflop situation really threw me for a loop. This is at the Shoe in Cincinnati

Reads/Information : Me (BB) : New kid in town for the weekend, nobody knows me. I just helped start the 5/T, and we've gone for like 45 min to an hour playing between 4 to 6 handed. I've been fairly quiet, not sure I've even put in a 3b yet, though I've made a few isos & opens. Not sure I've shown a hand yet.

Villain (BTN) : mid 20-something player, only hand I remember seeing him show before this was him check/raising AQdd on a 3-way 542dd flop from the SB to a c-bettor, barreling a 4 turn, and giving up a 6o river and letting the PFR take it down with 88. I certainly don't think he's a total fish, but he has shown an overlimp & open limp before this hand. Not sure how to place him.

On to the hand : 1700 deep , 6-handed ; UTG (pro) opens to 30, UTG1 (whale) flats, folds to BTN, who 3bets to 110, SB folds, I have AKo in the BB...

Give me your thoughts!

How does the whale play

Thanks for asking, I meant to put it in OP but forgot. Whale had ~1k, and he was passive/limpy preflop and slightly stationy post (again, this is just a 30 min read). I can depend on him to come along if I flat. Pro had me covered and I was around 1900.

I think I'd let it go and pick up reads since your oop and just wait for a better spot.

If you had a more aggressive image and dynamic with the reg on the button, I'd 4bet and get it in against him. Given you've been pretty in line so far, I think I'd call and try to play a pot with the fish.

Oop. Just call.

Thanks for the thoughts so far everybody. Here, it felt like every option was on the table, with each one having some merit and some problems too.

Flatting to keep whale in seems optimal in retrospect, especially with his stack size. Extracting value OOP multiway won't be easy, but I don't have to worry a ton about someone overplaying their hand on A/K high boards if we go to the flop 3-4 ways (especially if the flop is like KJx or AJx). If UTG 4-bets, I can just snap fold knowing it's KK+ since my cold call OOP looks so strong. I even like a cold call IP too

Folding seems OK too. We haven't seen any 3bet dynamic yet, so we can't really put a range on BTN. If we knew he were some online crusher, we'd know he can be pretty wide here and it becomes a cold 4! spot for sure.

4-betting looks worst in vacuum without reads. Setting up a stack off/bluff off situation postflop without dynamic and with deep stacks seems like poor poker, especially if you come in with a plan to play pretty ABC and gather reads in the first hour.

Results : 6-handed, 1700 deep : UTG opens to 30, UTG1 (whale) flats, BTN 3-bets to 110, SB folds, Hero 4-bets to 310, folds to BTN, who flats.

Flop (685, ~1300 left to bet) : AJ5r, Hero...

Check. Leaves your range wide. I would assume he is JJ-Kk. Mayybe AK as well.

380
Shove turn
nh

Interesting disagreement. I think checking is fine, as long as we earn a bet off KK/QQ between twice and three times as often as they suck out on us (I'm c/fing a Q turn obviously, but a K turn might end up with being stacked or at least losing a sizable bet). If villain will be really entitled with his KK/QQ anyway and call a bet, betting seems good too. We just don't get to this spot with many hands we decide we're going to bluff, so getting value with AK doesn't make sense either.

Flop (685) : Hero checks, Villain checks.

Turn (685, ~1300 behind) : Ax Jx 5s 3s ; Hero bets 365, villain calls.

River (1400, ~1k behind) : Ax Jx 5s 3s 4x ; Hero bets 670, villain calls. Hero wins versus AQ.

Missed out on river value here for sure. Villain having AQ and calling makes my preflop play a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, though I definitely feel it's a suboptimal line. Turn bet clearly has much more value than a flop bet, since we can remove some (not all) chops and better from his range when he checks back, at least you can with most live players IMO.

I never come up with this in game, but I think 150-200 otf is good

I don't think AQ is in his range here.

I think you are incorrect.

I think it definitely could be in his range. OP did note that villain showed up with AQ so this seems to support the idea that the hand is in his range. IMO

nobody 3bets AQo 6 handed otb anymore?

They might. I think good players would fold it to a 4bet though.

^

I'd flat the 3 bet suuuuper wide assuming whale is a whale and utg doesn't squeeze. I probably also don't have a 4 betting range (at least for value).

As played check flop 515 turn shove river.

I would also cold call the 3-bet. As played I would bet 200ish on the flop, planning to bet your stack over three small streets. Checking is okay, I just don't think its that likely to induce much and I prefer taking the low variance play in 20-hands-per-hour poker of just betting small and getting protection in a pretty big pot vs his 1) broadway gutters which will likely freeroll you for 4+ outs by rarely bluffing vs a check and 2) KK-QQ which will much sooner peel a bet than bet themselves, again which will freeroll you in a huge pot for 1-2 outs.

Not to be results oriented but AQ needs to be considered to be within his range given what little reads you have, and checking the flop minimizes vs that hand.

I like flatting pre to get the fish in the pot.

4bet sizing seems small...380 at the min seems good.

As played i like a check here for reasons stated already..

Turn and river are mandatory bets