Stacks:
Hero (BB) $1500
UTG $1000
UTG+1 $400
MP $1500
HIJ $1000
CO $1500
BTN $1000
SB $1000

Preflop: Hero is dealt AQ
Everyone limps, CO makes it $50, 2 folds, Hero calls, everyone else calls.

Flop ($300): KQT
Everyone checks

Turn ($300): Q
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $60, 3 folds, Hero raises to $300, UTG tanks for an entire minute and makes an agonizing call, UTG+1 calls and is all in.

River ($1200): 7
Hero checks, UTG goes all in..... Hero???

I checked turn because the table was full of slowplayers and I could definitely see a flopped set or flush being checked on the flop because of how god awful commerce players are. I was intending on just check calling any large bet and folding if someone got all in before it got to me. When UTG+1 made that weak ass bet and everyone folded I decided to put him all in because I'm gonna call a bet from him on a river brick anyway, plus everyone else was out except for UTG and I didn't expect UTG to slowplay twice on this board.

not sure i like the reasoning for raising turn.

river is a clear fold.

Fold river, lead turn. I don't like the raise either.

How much do I lead turn for? If the short stack shoves on me do I call anyway?

Nothing wrong with your line at all imo. Fold river unless villain is special.

Yes, you call. Lead 1/2 of a pot. If anyone else bets, fold.

I guess we're being a little result oriented on the turn raise, it's not that bad. The reason is to isolate the fish and force him to call with something dominated. A lot of bad rivers can kill your action.

Leading has lot more merits though, QJ, JsT, even any funky AsX with a pair will call often.

I wasn't planning on check raising like I said in my OP. Only after everyone folded except for UTG and the super short stack did I think I had the best hand, and at that point I was raising for value.

Does the value I get from leading make up for the times I have to fold my FH draw when someone raises me with a flush/straight? I may have been playing too weak tight, because in my mind on that flop I felt like I didn't have the best hand the majority of the time against 7 players, but I still had a redraw to the nuts and didn't wanna let go of that equity.

LAG vs NIT

Agonizing call? As in... oh my god... this guy raised $300... and I have a full house. How miserable my life is... I guess I have to call this, but I better pretend to not like it!

Its actually a pretty nitty line if you think about it. Flat pre with a suited monster, check 2ndptk + sd, check TRIPS + sd on the turn (with no intention of raising), only raise because some goofball shorty bet 60 into 300 and the field is all but cleared out, and then make a disciplined fold when trappy hollywooding luckbox shoves river. Nitty but good imo.

To be honest, I don't know exactly since I don't play in your games. But worse hands should call, you know your outs and they probably also have some showdown value so weaker players won't turn them into a bluff on the river. Also you stop anyone getting a free river. I expect peoples calling range to be wider than their betting range.

FH outs are negligible, that's only like 9% (if you calculate also quads). Without initiative I don't think your river donk will be called every time, quite often though. Anyways, 9 % isn't much. If you're behind on the turn when someone bets with 70 % certainty, just fold.

Fine you win

I still don't see how this is a valid reason to check the turn. It seems like your going into a ck/call type of mode against typical 5/10 live commerce players which is a pretty terrible thing to do since this is a spot where they hardly are bluffing (ie. big pot with multiway action). So the only thing you are accomplishing by checking the turn is just giving a free chance for one of the other 5 guys to outdraw you.

On the turn by checking, you are not inducing anything from anybody so giving a free card is terrible since you don't have a spade in your hand and there are 6 people in the hand. Why are you giving some idiot who called a $50 raise with 25 or whatever a chance to draw out on you on the river?

Lead turn/BetFold river is the best line imo.

Or Lead Call turn/CF river (if unimproved) isn't so bad either if someone raises your lead on the turn.

FH outs against a flush/straight should be 20% right? If my FH equity was only 9% I definitely would have just bet/folded the turn. I just didn't wanna get stuck in an ugly spot where I get raised and have to give up on that FH draw, especially since someone could be spazz raising with a worse Q and blow me off my hand, but I guess the consensus is that I have the best hand here more than 50% of the time so I should bet.

Oh yeah, misscalculations lol, but those other outs pair the board again but it's still something.

ok i thought about this hand more. i know dgaf is not saying he prefers c/r to lead, just he had no problem with the line. i did misread the hh originally and thought there were more people left to act, so that changed my mind a bit, but i'm still not sure i like the c/r.

on this sick board, a c/r most assuredly folds out everything we beat, except for nutty fd's. yes, the shorty is most likely FOS, but if he is, why raise him? i think we got pretty lucky to get a call from him if he is actually behind in this hand. if he had one of the nutty fd's, i think he would've bet bigger, so that presumably should take the sole "behind hand" out of his range. so now we are literally only getting called by hands that beat us. i realize i am making assumptions about this guy, but they are realistic ones.

utg seemed done with the hand, but that is not always dependable (this hand being an example). as a deeper stack, this c/r opens us up to a world of hurt if he does something crazy.

i would like the c/r more if we had 72o or the nutty fd ourselves. all those in between hands i'm happy to pot control on a board like this.

[x] nit

The tiny bet is him simultaneously setting his own price for a draw/pot committing himself to the draw. I know this sounds very results oriented and ridiculous, but that's always been my experience. That or the stone cold nuts, but in that case I'm stacking off to him on a blank river anyway right?

After the short stack is getting almost 3-1 on his money..... is 72o really good enough to c/r him all in here? Also if I lead out $200, and one person calls and a $1000 stack shoves, then I'm pot committed to the hand. So if I bet, I'll be bloating the pot and then I'll likely be committed to calling a shove because of my own dead money that I already put in. Or at least that's how I was looking at it when I decided to take this line.

por que no tenemos un y es muy posible que shorty tiene algo estupido como 77

(also for value against worse bluff-catchers)

first time i've had to use google translate to read something in msnl. thanks friend.

i feel overepping hands in certain spots where we incite the respective undesirable reaction from a wa/wb opponent is too spewy, but perhaps it is a leak that i often take this concept too far.

IT IS MY NITTY THAT DEFINES ME

inner nit but i feel like with raising we get more calls from hands that beat us than we actually beat