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Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB.

06-11-2010 , 10:03 AM
Hero has moved seats twice tonigt. The first time I moved was to get a better relative position to the active player at the table who would raise almost every hand preflop with weak holdings. I doubled up through him when I limped in with AJsooted, he raised to $20 as predicated and I 3bet to $90 with $110 behind, I am way ahead of his raising range here plus there was a few callers of the $20 which created a lot of dead money. I flopped TP and shoved the rest in and he called with A2. He left 1 orbit later.

I then moved seats again so that I would have absoulte position on the 3 players to my immediate left. I have been watching them all night and they were unlikely to raise with less than AQ+, TT. This give me the opportunity to open my range on the BTN, CO and HJ seats to hands like K9s, Q9s, J8s, T7o/s, PP, SCs, QTos-54os, KTos as I would only have to call 1 bet to see the flop as I figured the players to my left wouldnt raise light. The table made fun of me moving again but I put it down to card dead-ness at the seat (lol) and I wanted to change my luck..........yep it was luck.


I got into a cheap pot on the BTN with 65o/s, the flop was A-5-5 and I got another $200 stack from a player holding AQ who rivered an Q which sunk him I guess. I have about $550 in front of me when this hand happens....

Hero: BB $550
EP: $300
MP: $300
CO: $250
BTN: $150
SB: $270

Preflop: Hero is dealt QT
5 Players limp in, Hero checks.

Flop: KA6 ($12) 6 Players
SB checks, Hero checks, EP bets $10, MP calls, CO calls, BTN folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

My reason for calling was that I was getting 5:1 on my call, closing the action, my hand is hidden, I can easily get away if I hit a pair like a Queen. My implied odds are huge if I do happen to get lucky.

Turn: 9 ($62) 5 Players
SB checks, Hero checks, EP bets $45, MP calls, CO folds, SB folds, Hero.....

So I am not getting the direct odds to call anymore, but I figure there is a great chance to stack both players if an off suit Jack lands and even get a big chunk if another club happens to hit river. EP hand is pretty much face up at this point, like AQ or AK. MP not sure maybe worse Aces or even just some random kings looking to hit two pair or trips. I dont think EP will fold an hand like AQ/AK here if I do want to make a move.
  • Does any one raise?
  • Is calling spew?

Last edited by RoosterCAD; 06-11-2010 at 10:20 AM.
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-11-2010 , 10:30 AM
Why do you put EP on AQ+? I thought you said he would raise that hand.

You are getting 3.5-1 to call the $45. 4j's and 8 other clubs mean 12 outs, or pretty much 3-1 to make your hand.

Would your flush be good though, i.e. would CO call with Ax? Sure. Would he call such a big bet with only a weak ace? Doubt it.

I don't like the shove because you don't have fold equity esp. against the CO.

I think this is borderline, but likely a call.
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-11-2010 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCAD
So I am not getting the direct odds to call anymore
Actually, I think you are; you have 12ish outs (2nd nut flush draw + nut gutshot draw) so, using rule of 2/4 to get an estimate, that puts us around 24% equity (about 3:1), and we're getting over 3:1 on the call. I don't raise, especially if people can't fold top pair. EZ call, IMO.

GcluelessnoobG
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-11-2010 , 01:36 PM
Calling is not spew, call.
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06-11-2010 , 03:55 PM
You are getting odds to call and are right that if you hit you'll get paid off, so I would call.

I think a raise is a very very bad idea because if they are sitting there with two pair or a set (he'd be more likely to limp with 66 then AQ in EP preflop) then they will definitely push on you and you'll be sitting there wondering why you didn't call to see the card on the river. Chances are you wouldn't call if they push so best bet is to call and see if you hit.
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-12-2010 , 10:09 AM
Think you have to call here given the price you are getting. How much would everyone lead if we do hit the gutshot or flush?
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-12-2010 , 10:31 AM
Calling is fine
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06-12-2010 , 10:39 AM
call. And I I think you get paid with the BD flush by 2pr +
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-12-2010 , 10:46 AM
The A and 6 might be tainted and ur drawing to the 2nd not flush, although it is unlikely someone else is drawing to the nuts, A6 does make sense (as does AJ.) U should discount some outs and also factor in that ur OOP. If u don't think they both fold (which it sounds like u don't) then raising is spew.

If u call and hit do u lead (and for how much) or do u check? (I think u have to lead if it's a club.)
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-17-2010 , 06:20 PM
What happens if we call and miss? just open fold or can we get a little creative and bet or even C/R?
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-17-2010 , 10:51 PM
call. if a miss just give up.

if we hit i lead for around $40-45
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-18-2010 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCAD
What happens if we call and miss? just open fold or can we get a little creative and bet or even C/R?
Meh, I don't like any idea which involves trying to bluff two players. I just check/fold if I miss.
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-18-2010 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoosterCAD
What happens if we call and miss? just open fold or can we get a little creative and bet or even C/R?
No. Both your draws are decently concealed (one is a gutshot and the other is runner-runner) and you have plenty enough IO to make money without getting fancy on the river.
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-20-2010 , 05:36 AM
I think this is a easy call. Against two opponents I don't think their is much FE here so raising is definatly spewy. Sure some of your outs may be dirty but your hand is fairly well concealed and will most likely get paid off on river. I think whether or not we lead the river or go for a c/r if we improve depends on the likelyhood that the EP player has a big hand or if not will value bet a medium strength hand on the river that villian 2 will call. Without any knowledge of those facts I'd probably lead any club and go for a c/r if a offsuit J comes. Anyone think this is wrong?
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06-20-2010 , 01:49 PM
I'll dissent here and say this is spew.

If another club hits you don't think people will miss that you're on a flush draw and will call a bet of yours? You're odds to call seem just about even but so what, like stated before someone else is probably flush drawing(and prob to a better flush).

You have 3 non-club J's that can hit and make you big money for a straight, but for that to happen a Villain would have to make 2pair also when the J hit, giving you 2 actual J's available. It ain't gonna happen........

You're OOP w/a draw that's obvious. Fold and look for a better spot
Live <img /2: Musical Chairs &amp; QTsooted in the BB. Quote
06-20-2010 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crsseyed
I'll dissent here and say this is spew.

If another club hits you don't think people will miss that you're on a flush draw and will call a bet of yours? You're odds to call seem just about even but so what, like stated before someone else is probably flush drawing(and prob to a better flush).

You have 3 non-club J's that can hit and make you big money for a straight, but for that to happen a Villain would have to make 2pair also when the J hit, giving you 2 actual J's available. It ain't gonna happen........

You're OOP w/a draw that's obvious. Fold and look for a better spot
I get what you are saying, but I don't think the chances of someone else drawing for the same flush draw are that high, considering the draw appeared on the turn. For the same reason, I think we would possibly get paid to some degree if we hit the flush.
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06-20-2010 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashgamepoker500
call. if a miss just give up.

if we hit i lead for around $40-45
value bet 1/3 of the pot OOP with now likely the best hand against what we assume our opponent has a minimum of good ace esp, after his good sized turn bet? I don't like it because we're letting AJ and AQ off too easily AT A MINIMUM I'd bet half pot. As played call turn, fold to a brick on the river, raising turn is dangerous as we're OOP and we might even commit villian to pot.
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