I think ur repping AA/AK far more than KK. But Lets forget about what ur repping for a moment

Villain range based on flop and turn call and river check: AK, KQ, KJ

River shove will most definitely make villain fold KQ
Villain will most definitely CALL with KJ

This leaves AK. For villain to fold AK, he has to be convinced that you would shove with the top of ur range. You have already stated, he has seen you 3bet light before so he MAY convince himself that u are FOS and make a crying call with AK

Not the best river card to bluff. If river was an A, then I like ur line alot more, cause I can't see him calling with anything in his range

I agree with papagavin here. Against your average player I'm betting here with AK (though not shoving unless it's AK), and shoving all day with AA. In fact, I posted a similar hand I played where I overbet jammed a 4TJ4Qr board on the river for close to double pot and got called by KQ.

@Chunkamunk: Why are you calling with 77 but not 22+? Why aren't you calling with AQ? They're all the same hand except for you're chopping with AQ a small percentage of the time. Instead of getting critique of calling that light here, why don't you post this same hand from the opposite perspective in MSNL and see how they think you should play 77 here against a triple barrel.

That being said, against a good player, you can't rep AA here because you would never overbet jam AA against someone good because they aren't calling you with AK. Though I'm not sure if villain will piece that together so it's possible you can rep AA. Most likely, you are repping a flush or better. JJ and 44 aren't in your range - or at least they shouldn't be. Maybe JJ a very small % of the time. So, quads sixes, kings full, QT, AQ, or AT... 6 combos of hands assuming villain has a K.

All in all I can't say I hate the bluff. You'll get looked up by trips always, I expect KJ to call still. AK is hard to say considering we don't know how good this guy is. I mean a lot of decent players will be calling here with AK just because it's AK. The fact that you've been 3betting a lot doesn't help your case to make this bluff profitable as villain will see you as bluffing more often in this spot. A bluff here is probably somewhere close to breakeven, but I would imagine -EV.

+1

@Chunkamunk: Why are you calling with 77 but not 22+? Why aren't you calling with AQ? They're all the same hand except for you're chopping with AQ a small percentage of the time. Instead of getting critique of calling that light here, why don't you post this same hand from the opposite perspective in MSNL and see how they think you should play 77 here against a triple barrel.

In essence youre correct. But I don't see myself calling a 3bet pre AND check calling 2 value bets OOP with an underpair to the whole board (55-22, altho 44 would have hit gin). If I had those hands and thought I was ahead OTF I'm c/r all day because my hand is so vulnerable or I'm just folding outright. Hero says that villian is a thinking player, therefore as played he would not realistically proceed with those hands past the turn.

TBH much more attention/analysis needs to given to the small original raise by the villian pre, and the awful 3bet w/ A8o by the hero.

it's a home game, we aren't casino donks like you who raise to 10x pre, i already said a8o isn't a good 3-b bluff hand (other than blocker). lol at there being any more need to analysis to pre, couldn't be less depth to it. if a bluff here is bad your call with 77 for sure is worse. gl.

if you can't take constructive criticism don't bother posting. I definitely wasn't flaming you and my read to call w/ a mid-pair isn't the discussion topic here... it's trying to figure out why you wanted to burn $ with A8o. relax guy.

I would really like a check on the turn in this hand. I think this would help villain's river decision much harder.

We also then have the option to represent the FD or FH better imo. $80-105? Instead of the shove maybe?

3betting A8 here is not awful.

If you mean as played, I think Kx is almost always calling even if he is a thinking player who realises this is a value-looking bet and we do this a lot more often with AA AK etc than we do when we jam.

And yes I can take constructive criticism.. Many of the hands I post (I almost never post in live cash fwiw) I played bad at one point or another and that's fine.. your post just seemed to say nothing but "this is awful" and given the bad (imo) reasons and especially the comments about pre then it just seemed more obvious to me that it was an attack rather than thought. Nothing personal, peace. gl

I hate it, especially given that it's not like you pulled the preflop 3bet out of thin air (like most live players)... and I want to love every 3 barrel bluff.

Villain's preflop range is probaby something like AJ+, KQs+, pp, assorted suited broadways, maybe T9s/98s.

Flop (bet is fine btw since A8 high should never be good here and he probably folds out some of his range that beats you) c/c narrows it to AK, KQ, 66+ (definitely not AA, probably discount KK).

Turn (I'm releasing my inner French soldier on this card, fwiw) c/c should narrow it to AK, KQ, and JJ and both AK and KQ might have picked up hearts since we have nada for blockers.

River feels like a bullet to the brain. Villain is usually bluff catching or inducing and you're just too enamored with the money in the middle to care.

On the other side... you're repping KK, JJ (are you 3betting JJ? Cbetting flop with it? Always?)... and AKhh? Are you 3betting AQhh? Would Villain believe you were whether or not you're actually doing it (most live players don't think other live players are 3betting AQ unless it's some weird shortstack jamming)? I think you're relying on that heart a lot to get Villain to find a fold given that he was unconvinced on the turn, and I don't see how we're so confident those aren't in his hand.

I'd expect to get snapped off here a lot, since Villain basically always has a blocker to KK or a hand better than top pair.... unless Villain is bad enough to respond "wow, $375 is a lot of money. I should fold." But I don't know him that well.

If villain is real good he could also reason that you aren't value betting as thin as a AK/AA potentially even QhTh and figure you to be weighted mainly towards bluffs. I want to like the play, but with such little history I can't think it is very profitable if at all.

Flop and turn seem pretty standard, the latter to get him off ace high and 77~99. Once we get to the river though its indisputable spew. You need him to fold 60% of his holdings. If they consist just of Kx and 6x, which they dont (sometimes he has AA or JJ or floated hearts), then due to cards on board there is a 3 to 2 ratio between them, if we consider 5 kickers for each from a reasonable range:
64s, 65, 67, 68s, 6As
K9s, KTs, KJ, KQ, KA
Now add in the fact that KA is usually 4betting. AND this is assuming he folds a King every time.

Havent considered whether a smaller bet might be good or not. Its obviously more complex, but my gut is its just a check behind... I think Kings are just not going anywhere without overbetting.

I think he folds Kx a LOT more often than you guys seem to, and I also don't think he has 6x that often and if at all it would mostly be limited to 65 76 and maybe 86 A6 (all four suited). I don't think he has K9s or KJo, and for a good player a flat with even KQo oop here (same with some of the other hands people seem to think he has a lot) is pretty bad. AK is probably not usually 4-betting though, given how deep we are. Dunno why such an old thread has been hit with so much response recently but like I said earlier given I am an unknown to him afaik (could be wrong) people tend to lean towards giving credit rather than discredit and in a spot like this assuming it is polarised then obviously whether even 6x should call depends on how often we are bluffing, it could be polarised, sure but if we are almost never bluffing for example our value range makes 6x a fold.. as an example. Not saying I expect him to fold 6x very often at all if he has it although I wouldn't be surprised either since obviously 6x only beats stuff we are thin value betting like AK AA.

Some of the ranges some of you guys have given are pretty weird/wrong imo. Like villain unless he sucks should almost never have stuff like AJo KQo.

Also this is obviously an extreme example and doesn't apply 100% here but you have to consider that even if we are repping thin it's a question of do we bluff often.. like if we raise on the BTN with AK and the flop comes AK6r and a big nit who never bluffs c/r us on this board he is repping 3 combos only (since even a nit will be 3b ak pre vs btn) but we still have to fold because regardless of how thin his value range is.. there is no bluff range. Again this doesn't apply here since we aren't perceived as a nit etc but some people don't seem to ever realise that in spots where you are repping thin it's not necessarily a disaster just because of that alone..

"I hate it, especially given that it's not like you pulled the preflop 3bet out of thin air (like most live players)" What does this even mean??

Also since it probably isn't very clear from how "defensive" some of my responses may seem, I honestly am fine with people who disagree with the hand or any part of it. I'm also not saying this is a great (or even good) play etc

I get what ur saying but problem is uve not considered that maybe that move in this spot is just not good with any holding, whether air, nuts or anything in between? To be extreme, I had a guy over shove my 4x preflop raise for 100BB effective. It is possible you know. Not every move in the game is a move that is part of any optimal strategy for the player making it. If ur villain decides this is so in this case, then it basically comes down to what type of a bad player he thinks you are. Which is an answer that only he can provide and you can maybe guess at and thus isnt too interesting for the porpoises of this forum.

no of course i get that... i think jamming here is fine both for value and as a bluff (as mentioned throughout topic a blocker such as Ah would be nice) and overjamming pot in general whilst obviously not common etc etc is for sure fine in many spots. ty for your input

I'm just slightly against. I think a tight and solid villain who reads you as a good player could get rid of 6x here; if I'm villain your shove looks like you're putting me on a 6 and want a call, as much as it looks like a bluff. If we're folding out naked 6's this is a good one for sure.

It means that based on OP you've apparently been 3betting him a noticeable amount (most live players rarely/never 3bet), so you're going to get less credit for showing up with a premium hand from the start. Couple that with your bluffy line and Villain should correctly put you on.... a bluff!

In those examples he also folded and 4bet. He hadn't been this sticky once (no?).

I also don't think you're repping AK well (and maybe not AA) with the river shove, and I doubt you're repping KK here since Villain should never have a 6 and you've got the board crippled (weaker range for Villain, smaller bet his hands can pay).

Basically I think you're repping mainly JJ (not exactly a wide value range) and doing a pretty questionable job of it for all the reasons stated in my last response.