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Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table

07-30-2012 , 10:58 AM
1/3 game. Game has been super loose, with most pots going multiway to the turn. I bought in for $300, have played super tight for about an hour and a half, and have about $320 behind. I've seen maybe 4 flops so far.

Then this hand pops up:

UTG ($270ish): Forced straddle for $10. He's been super tight all night. Never played with him before. Only hand I've seen him play/show down was quad aces.

UTG+1 ($600): He's on his 3rd $300 buyin, and just calls. He's been playing super aggressively, and just getting unlucky. I've never played with him before, but I get the sense that he's a strong player. He's grinded that 3rd buyin back up to $600.

UTG+2 (Me): AA. Because I've been super tight, I decide to flat. There are two players behind me (CO and SB) who have either raised pf, or bombed the flop, every time there is a forced straddle. My plan is to shove pf if one of them raises.

MP ($1200): Flats. Has been flatting all night, getting lucky. Not a solid player. Has chased all his draws (gutshots) to the river (he showed me every hand he mucked).

MP2: Not at the table

CO ($900): First dude who has been raising every forced straddle. He just flats this time. He's been super aggressive every time he gets into a pot, so this is a new development. His pf raising range is basically any PP, broadways, and suited connectors.

BTN: Folds.

SB ($800): I've played with him many times. He's super loose/aggressive, has no problem calling with ATC, and will get it in with FDs and OESDs all day. He is the sceond player who often raises forced straddle pots. He flats as well. His pf raising range is all PPs, all broadways, suited connectors, and occasionally random hands like 85o.

BB ($150): Station to the nth degree. Flats.

UTG: Checks.

Pot: $70

Flop: Q72

UTG checks.
UTG+1 checks.
Me: Check. I'm still slowplaying. At this point, I'm sure someone will raise behind me, and I'm still planning to reraise if CO or SB raises.
MP: Checks.
CO: Checks.
SB: Bets $25. This is the perfect spot for me, imo. He would bet this with any Q, any FD, and maybe even a hand like A7.
BB: Smooth calls. As expected.
UTG and UTG+1 fold.
Me: Raise to $125 straight.
Everyone folds to the SB, who instantly shoves.
BB also shoves.
I tank, and then shove as well.
Everyone else folds.

My thoughts about my shove: I wasn't worried about the BB because I thought he would shove at that point with anything, most like a Q. I was slightly worried about the SB, but figured his range had so many FDs and TPs that I was probably way ahead. Thus, because I figured I was way ahead of both the SB's and BB's ranges, I shoved.

My questions, though: Even though I had a plan pf to reraise the aggressive players, should I have raised? And, since no one raised pf, should I have bet the flop?
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote
07-30-2012 , 11:08 AM
You have 30bb, no need for all this FPS...Just raise and play a very easy/way more profitable hand instead
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote
07-30-2012 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjim311

UTG+2 (Me): AA. Because I've been super tight, I decide to flat. There are two players behind me (CO and SB) who have either raised pf, or bombed the flop, every time there is a forced straddle. My plan is to shove pf if one of them raises.
I have the same problem as yours, my image is very tight at my games...my 3bets always get either folds from hands I dominate, or calls from cracking type hands (like middle pp)...So I understand ur argument, the problem with your thought process is, u will shove over a raise, this is the worst thing u can do given ur image, I would much rather limp/call than limp/shove with ur image...ofc limping AA is bad (period). What u wanna do is make a decent sized raise, so even if they call, they r not getting the correct odds to crack ur big hands, this way u make them make a mathematical mistake by calling -> profit
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote
07-30-2012 , 11:59 AM
As played:

PF: Tried to get tricky, failed. limp-reraising is going to get you screwed. Don't do it. Therefore, raise flop. Pick a raise amount that will let you shove the turn, $45-55. My tendency towards limp-reraising is defined by "getting greedy" aka "AA!! I want to make some money on this hand!!"

stop. play the hand in the optimal manner, not the greediest one.

(the problem with the LRR is that NOBODY BALANCES WITH IT. It's AA/KK/AKss 99% of the time. so now you're playing your hand faceup in a bloated pot, and you'll win a smallish/med pot or lose a gigantic one when you get outflopped. would you show your opponent your hand? no? then don't limp reraise.)

OTF: Tried to get tricky with a c/r. c/r blows out all the hands that you beat. on that flop, you are hoping for your opponents to have AQ/KQ/QJ/QXss. None of those hands call a check/raise from a player who has seen 4 flops. As played, most good players are only going to call that c/r with sets/two pair/pair+flush draws/nut flush draws. Your single overpair isn't doing so well there.

TL;DR

pf trickiness leads to shenanigans
flop trickiness leads to shenanigans
must call other two shoves unless they SHOW you 77/22.

should have
fired 45-55 pf
then shoved flop (2+ callers)
or bet flop flop shoved turn (1 caller)
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote
07-30-2012 , 12:03 PM
This is not a 1/3 game if there are forced straddles, and you only have 32 BBs in this pot. I know you are trying to be tricky because of your nit image, but for the love of god raise this pre. If the game is this gambooly, you'll still get a caller or two.

AP, you are def pot committed OTF with an overpair. I prefer B/C, but CR/C is ok too. You are likely facing a FD and a TP. There should be no 2pair in there, and sets are in the range, but not highly likely.

Edit: Or to simplify, DallasDonkey's post that ninja'd me is 100% correct.
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote
07-30-2012 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasDonkey
As played:
TL;DR

pf trickiness leads to shenanigans
flop trickiness leads to shenanigans
must call other two shoves unless they SHOW you 77/22.

should have
fired 45-55 pf
then shoved flop (2+ callers)
or bet flop flop shoved turn (1 caller)
Basically this +99999. You have no choice but to call, but you're probably behind at this point.
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote
07-30-2012 , 01:42 PM
Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

Normally I would do exactly what DallasDonkey (and everyone else in this thread) has suggested (raise to $45 pf, bet the flop and get it in either on flop or turn depending on action), but this session I was playing especially nitty and the table was especially loose and aggressive. I tried something different, and it certainly complicated my decision-making a lot.

Re: forced straddle. Because the straddle is only forced on some hands, I guess I have a hard time thinking about the game in terms of BBs. Like, some hands I have effectively 100BBs; others, I have 30BBs. Thus, I should make decisions accordingly. I don't think this changes the fact that limping AA is not a great play, but certainly changes the way I view my decisions.
Line check: AA at super loose/aggressive table Quote

      
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