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Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2

03-11-2014 , 09:41 PM
Thank you for taking a look.

Hero (UTG+1) - 450 playing pretty tight tonight, opening most of the hands I'm in Preflop.
Villain (CO) - 550 has been shoving TPGK and bottom two. Watched him call a 300 AI bet into a 450 pot with AQ on a Q89TA board. Calls most bets pre in and OOP.

hero makes it UTG+1 17 MP calls, CO calls and SB calls.

Flop is 83Q (68) checked it me I make it 45 and CO calls.

Turn is 6 (158) I bet 85 he calls.

River 3 (328). I bet 150 and he goes all in. I have 153 left. Hero.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 09:50 PM
Kinda sick but we can't fold. We have the nut two pair now.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 09:52 PM
your read is shoving TPGK and bottom two...but when and how? Jamming TPGK on flop or turn as the aggressor would be a whole lot different than facing 3 streets of aggression and jamming the river. We have a bluff catcher here, so is he really doing this with a bluff?
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 09:56 PM
We are committed to the pot. We have invested over 2/3 of our stack...

Folding isn't really an option.

The real question is whether the $150 river bet was the best move.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:01 PM
What would be the proper move OTR? And do you guys see any other mistakes in the hand?

And what do you guys think this kind of Villian shoves this river with?
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTT777
your read is shoving TPGK and bottom two...but when and how? Jamming TPGK on flop or turn as the aggressor would be a whole lot different than facing 3 streets of aggression and jamming the river. We have a bluff catcher here, so is he really doing this with a bluff?
Action was 4 limpers. Villian is on the BTN, makes it 15. A tight player in MP is the only caller.

Flop A95 (36) checked to Villian he makes it 25 and tight player raises to 60. Villian jams for 125 and tight player calls. Villian shows AT and tight player shows AKo
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:13 PM
Did you have the A of clubs?

As played, I call. I beat all QJ+, Q8 now, KK, JJ, TT (if he would play those this way). I don't think he has QQ cuz he would've RR preflop. I think 88 and 66 check/raise on the turn. I think that turn bet is a bit on the small side considering the hands that will call the flop and the strong combo draws getting odds (e.g. 3cXc , 6cXc, 9Tc, TJc) that will still call a big bet that we will usually be getting money in good against and also considering the villains stack size. I prefer a bet of around $120. The turn call is a bit concerning against tighter players, but against this villain, considering that he's aggressive with made hands and calls off w/o fear (not sure if that's good or bad), I feel like I make money in the long run bloating this pot on the turn and getting it all in on the river against a villain that will probably pay off w/ QJ+ and Q8 (which he probably raises by the turn) on this board that hasn't shown a ton of strength yet. I think there's more times that the 3 is good for me than times that it's bad.

I don't see a fold, but I see the villain showing up w/ some combo of 3cXc. I ask if you have the Ac because I would probably have 3cXc if I was the villain. I would shove with that. Other than that, maybe 66 or 88, but I might've raised on the turn. Then again, considering I would've had position, maybe not.

I like the flop bet, but I prefer a bigger turn bet for sure. AP, I call and kick myself for not betting bigger on the turn against a passive player that might've shipped right then with QA

Last edited by Speeno; 03-11-2014 at 10:17 PM. Reason: I should proofread before I post
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:19 PM
Call. He has 3X a fair amount but you're getting a great price, and this is the 3rd or 4th best hand in your range. It feels wrong to be folding everything except an overfull here, especially against this villain as described.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaYu
We are committed to the pot. We have invested over 2/3 of our stack...

Folding isn't really an option.

The real question is whether the $150 river bet was the best move.
Yes you are right. Admittedly I know OP and we have been discussing villains range via text for a bit, hence my post emphasizing that. My problem was him telling me because this guy jammed TPGK on a flop or two earlier, this means he would do it on this river, of which I strongly disagree.

I'm not advanced enough to know what to do here, I just think if our 150 bet prices us in to call a river shove with a hand we don't beat often, we made a mistake. I'm just a nit tho, once I see the river raised at 1/2 it narrows the range immensely to me unless I've seen him bluff raise rivers before. I just don't see guys jamming Q8 and and QJ on rivers facing 3 streets of aggression. They usually just call.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyble
Call. He has 3X a fair amount but you're getting a great price, and this is the 3rd or 4th best hand in your range. It feels wrong to be folding everything except an overfull here, especially against this villain as described.
this hand makes a lot of sense and is a real possibility,

If V had TPGK I would've expected all the money to go in before the river

If V had a flush draw he would not be shoving because it looks like your pot committed

If V had something with SDV he would only call

With all of that said I'd make a crying call since we are getting redic odds but there is certainly merit to folding
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:33 PM
I did have the A, so I didn't put him on A3.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-11-2014 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VashaMan01
What would be the proper move OTR? And do you guys see any other mistakes in the hand?
If he raises QJ+ earlier in the hand, that eliminates a lot of the range you can value town for half pot here. Betting slightly smaller to extract from weaker queens, 99-JJ, even 8x is probably better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VashaMan01
And what do you guys think this kind of Villian shoves this river with?
Its hard for us to know if he would be likely to slowplay 88, or if he 3-bets QQ. Have you seen him do any 3-betting pre-flop? The rest of his range is mostly two club hands, both with and without the 3, and maybe an occasional bluff-catcher he decided wasn't good and spazzed out with instead of folding.
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-12-2014 , 06:16 AM
Folding is not an option at 2/3 invested. So ap i guess you gotta call and plan betsizing better in future
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-12-2014 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatbarrel
Folding is not an option at 2/3 invested. So ap i guess you gotta call and plan betsizing better in future
Well put
Line check AA facing a shove OTR - 1/2 Quote
03-12-2014 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatbarrel
Folding is not an option at 2/3 invested. So ap i guess you gotta call and plan betsizing better in future
Horribly put. All moneys invested are sunk costs and are completely irrelevant to the decision at hand.
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