haha nope

look at me defending this thread idea!

this strategy is really going to hinder you're development as a player. it's just going to teach you bad habits you're going to have to unlearn to play higher. if you want to play 1/2 for the rest of your life, go for it. do you really think this is gonna fly at 2/5 or 5/10? plus at nights when you end up with non-moron players at your 1/2 table, you're going get destroyed.

now i know you're talking about table selecting and all that, but when you do this, you are going to devote so much time into learning how to play OOP in limped pots, all while not learning how to play OOP in raised pots.

once you attempt to move up, you're just going to get annihilated.

do you think its a coincidence that basically 100% of the poker community stresses raising rather than limping?

go back and reread thread...

Growing up as a player means paying attention to action on the table. Making adjustments, apply some concepts. Everybody preaches aggression and betting instead of limping/calling preflop. Once everybody starts doing that you would have to come up with something to exploit that to make a profit. So what is strategy to exploit preflop aggression ?

More aggression. Its why the highest level players are 4-5 betting light. Ultimately the goal is to have the most control over the size of the pot and it is going to be easier to do that effectively by being the aggressor.

That said. 1\2 games are certainly not aggressive on average.

So 3 calling stations have limped in ep and 3 semi competent players followed to you on the button. You have 87h, you're raising here?

Depending on what you mean by station I certainly might to isolate the bad players while in position.

That said, I do overlimp on occasion. Just not very often and I'm pretty much never open limping.

Edit: wait do you mean I am on the button with 6 Limper's in front of me? Limping is fine there.

why not open limp J10s or 22-88 in ep on loose passive tables sometimes when you know most of the villians will call your open if you open but will also call overbets post, will stack off with TP, and will raise only 1010+?

isnt it crazy to play those hands any other way??
whats the point of opening going at least 3ways to the flop missing and having to give up cuz now pot is sizable and these guys are never folding with their backdoor one pair draws and u may not even get to turn or river where u couldve stacked one or even two players.

Not to mention you often blow out players preflop who wouldbe gladly given you their stack post.

Some guy mentioned earlier, while vehemently disagreeing with this, "why do you think poker players on here preach never limping and always opening" haha well yea i think we all understand why that is proper fundamentals but when we are playing in bingoland we are barely even playing a game that resembles poker... and as ive read ALSO here, in these games u need to readjust to your table and play ridiculously exploitatively.

I Talk about rereading this:

In the op it says limping his entire range. Your thought process is way off base, we want to bet for value and build a lot ASAP. If we open raise we build a pot and the times we hit we win an even bigger pot. How mush money do you expect to go into a limped pot with 10 dollars in the middle assumin rake doesn't affect the pot size. I could make all sorts of examples but I'm not going to wase my time on why raising is better than open limping in early position.

Villans have to flop something in order for them to call an over PSB. More often than not you are going to make the minimum with this strategy. I'm not advocating raising 22-66 UTG, If the table allows you to limp those profitably then great. But you have been off the actual original topic which is to limp our entire range pre in early position.

nah i hijacked this thread cuz original idea is silly but it opens the door to discuss some useful stuff

This idea of blowing players out who might have stacked off seems very backwards to me. As more players enter the pot, the less skill will play a role. Equities will be really similar preflop, hopefully we have a more playable hand post but we will be out of position and will be waiting to flop 2 pair and then extract value like everybody else.

I also don't see very many people stacking off with one pair in limped pots.

Playing a style that can be exploited can be fine in spots but it can also lead to throwing away a bunch of money if you aren't careful.

Long time lurker. Been telling myself latey I need to try and contribute to the forum, to help grow my game. So maybe people can help me if this is flawed thinking.

1st thought after reading the post is when we limp & make a good hand on the flop (not the nuts) it can make for very tough decisions on later streets. I feel like this because we under repped our hand so much & didn't make the V define their's it's really hard to know where we are at.

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this is very true, you have to use this sparingly and be very careful and you have to be super good playing post

but skill already plays a diminished role in these games doesnt it, most of the tables at my casino on weekend nights are super bingolike, you have to raise 18+ pre to avoid going 3+ways to the flop at 200nl with max buy in of 100bb so you already have a low spr going into flops vs villians who dont have fold buttons --> they will call 25+ dollars into a 12 dollar limped pot with TP and almost any draw allowing us to double barrel huge 1.2pot size bets of ~40bb on turns (with only one flop caller, more with two) and "pot committing" foldbutton-less villians to river shoves

We should be able to print money off of the villains you are describing by tightening our range preflop and widening out postflop value range. The low spr might make for more varience but skill is still the determining factor.

yea i totally agree

do you think we should have an EP limp calling range at such tables? 22-66? SC's?

Main rule for making money at poker: put your opponents to hard decisions/avoid situations where you're going to have to make a hard decision.

If we're raising preflop with AJ in middle position and getting called by four players with ATC, there's an easy/profitable strategy: wait till you hit top pair+, value bet the hell out of them. Only start c-betting if they actually adjust and stop paying you off with ****ty draws. Easy decision.

If we're limping preflop and letting others do the raising, we're going to face a LOT more hard decisions.

Example: during my session yesterday, I was in the BB in a limped pot with J7o. 4 limpers, flop comes j73. It's a generally passive table and I can't count on someone betting the flop for me, so I bet $10 (pot-sized bet/standard). Two players call. Turn is the A. ...Well ****, now I have a tough decision. I don't want to give a free card to club draws and gutshots. I can expect action from AcXc, might even be raised by AcXc. But if either player has TPTK or A7 or A3, I'm now way behind. I decide to bet $30. One player folds, the other moves all-in for his remaining $40. This is a must-call for me, and I'm disappointed when he shows me Ac3c.

That's a fairly pedestrian example, and that's the whole point. I lost $82 without making any obvious mistakes. And that's because I was OOP in a limped, multi-way pot. That happens when you're in the big blind. But I can think of no reason why I'd want to voluntarily expose myself to the risk of those tough decisions more frequently.

Be the aggressor. Put your opponents to hard decisions. Avoid spots where you'll face a hard decision.

Well put, I particularly like the sentence "only start cbetting if they actually adjust and stop paying you off with crappy draws". I cbet too much vs these villian types

I don't generally have an open limping range but could see myself limping behind with small pairs\scs in spots.

Isnt it a sin to open muck 22-66 in EP on such tables?

Or are you opening them from time to time? Considering table will limp around quite often, I hate opening these in EP on such a table.

Also opening them means we snap muck to 3bets (and since villians 3bet ranges are super narrow that spikes our implied odds if we hit) when we could have limp called villians open and setmined vs villians who are rarely folding any of their 3bet ranges post even on scary boards

Sorry I should have been clearer. I'm never folding any pairs but I'm laggy\spewy preflop. Limping is better than folding and thinking about it more is something I will do if stacks are particularly shallow.

Again depending on stacks I might also call a 3 bet vs such a strong\defined range.

yes I would call a 3bet too but usually were talking 200 bucks deep with 40-50 dollar 3bets lol so that sucks

im laggy/spewy preflop too lol thats why Ive found limping these hands in EP can help me control some of that spewyness and works out much better with shallower stack sizes

I open these online for 100bb cuz opening sizes arent so ridiculously big

At some tables, conditions make an OMC style mostly correct and an aggressive style that tries to force folds is flawed. At other tables, you can't be too passive if you want to win money.

If you're at a table that is tailor-made for OMCs, I advocate having an OMC gear in your toolbox instead of always trying to force the table to fit your style.

Your goal should be to figure out when playing this way works and when you should apply it. There are times when I want to encourage a table to play more multiway pots than the average table.

well said

Limp calling from oop is not profitable. When we get raised we likely don't have implied odds to strictly setmine. You are crushing your winrate limping 22-66 and calling raises with less than 100bb

Limping and calling in multiway pot can sometimes give you relative IP, while you are OOP in absolute terms. When the original raiser is aggro and there are a caller or two behind him, it's like you are at button.