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last hand of a session

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02-28-2011 , 07:18 PM

plzd0nate

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,407

im utg and leaving the next hand and have been playing a long time..

1/3 live
Hero utg stack is 525ish with KK raises to 12
seat 3 calls has me covered
button shoves for 85
hero calls my thinking is that i can get way more value from seat 3 because i have his range so dominated and i i believe he will think im weak because im thinking about it for a while
seat 3 shoves he is and old retired guy seems to not be god awful but not good by any means plays fairly loose and plays his cards and has shown some bluffs
Hero......???

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02-28-2011 , 07:21 PM

Ultrazord

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,439

Are you already racked up? If yes your range is exactly AKs, QQ, KK, AA. If he's smart enough to know this and still shoves...

Of course an old man flatting with AA is pretty rare. Embrace the variance and call.

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02-28-2011 , 07:25 PM

plzd0nate

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,407

no no one knew i was leaving im not stupid....

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02-28-2011 , 07:27 PM

polakpoker4

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 649

I think Id call here because villain could probably do this with worse in an attempt to get heads up and fold you out with the extra money in the middle. I think its kinda close though.

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02-28-2011 , 07:38 PM

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 13,094

easy fold

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02-28-2011 , 07:47 PM

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

I recently got in a spotwhere it should have been a snap fold of KK pre but I called and spiked the 2 outer...

Trust me, when a NIT 4bets it's like ONLY AA especially since there is only 1 combo of KK left. So just let it go.

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02-28-2011 , 08:32 PM

plzd0nate

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,407

it wasnt a straight 4bet tho... how this hand played this is an easy fold?

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02-28-2011 , 08:43 PM

mr. theft

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 68

snap ship....villan has qq.

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02-28-2011 , 08:54 PM

dadaduhh

temp-banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 175

There are obvious i situations to fold kk at a 1/2 live table. Not sure this is the situation but I think people tend to stack off too much with KK. Usually the whole table will say AA, KK and they are right when the cards are flipped up. Not an easy fold but given the right situation it shouldn't be too hard

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02-28-2011 , 09:07 PM

#10

mr. theft

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadaduhh

I don't think that this situation qualifies. Buttons range includes a lot of ax hands which would make aa less likely. We have under-repped our hand by calling the all-in bet. If the villan had jj qq or even aks he could make this play to create dead money and get it in against one person. I know this is lowstakes but with position I don't think he just shoves with aa, nor flat call a raise with aa early which would lead to more people calling with speculative hands. Of course we could be over thinking here, but as one poster said embrace the variance and call.

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02-28-2011 , 09:40 PM

#11

AintNoLimit

Coach live/online NLHE

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,399

im folding.

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02-28-2011 , 10:55 PM

#12

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,334

Huh. A rarity here, but I disagree with ANL. Flatting, then overshoving seems more like QQ than AA to me. I'm not saying this isn't AA, but I weight range as QQ>AA>JJ>AK with all else being basically unpossible. (ok, maybe the one other combo of KK.

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02-28-2011 , 11:59 PM

#13

plzd0nate

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,407

my hand is soooo under repped at this point which is why this was such a sick spot for me and due to the fact that he flatted 12 in early position with like 5 people to act.. i guess it just comes down to how bad i think this guy is if he would really flat and over bet me all in with AA(which would make absolutely no sense in this situation imo)... lets also note that i am a young kid and this guy prolly thinks im on scared money which would make him think this is a great spot to get me out of the hand

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03-01-2011 , 12:13 AM

#14

Percula

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by plzd0nate

seat 3 shoves he is and old retired guy seems to not be god awful but not good by any means plays fairly loose and plays his cards and has shown some bluffs
Hero......???

If the bold part is right, how does your perceived range factor into your choices at all?

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Originally Posted by plzd0nate

my hand is soooo under repped at this point which is why this was such a sick spot for me and due to the fact that he flatted 12 in early position with like 5 people to act.. i guess it just comes down to how bad i think this guy is if he would really flat and over bet me all in with AA(which would make absolutely no sense in this situation imo)... lets also note that i am a young kid and this guy prolly thinks im on scared money which would make him think this is a great spot to get me out of the hand

Who is to say that he did not expect it to be raised, maybe he seen the AI SS coming and planned to c/rai all along?

As tempting as it sounds, I think I let it go this time. I would prefer to error on the conservative side.

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03-01-2011 , 12:53 AM

#15

endodocdc

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Percula

If the bold part is right, how does your perceived range factor into your choices at all?

Who is to say that he did not expect it to be raised, maybe he seen the AI SS coming and planned to c/rai all along?

As tempting as it sounds, I think I let it go this time. I would prefer to error on the conservative side.

I would think the same thing....U're up in the session. Walk away.

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03-01-2011 , 01:02 AM

#16

Foldhmmm

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 198

Seat 3 - How long did it take seat 3 to move all in. I don't think he has AA. I don't think that AA would call a 12 bet with 5 callers still to act. They would make it at least $35 to isolate initial raiser.

Seat 3 may be reading the Button as weak and probably wants to flip his pockets 8-10's. Most older players like to talk I'd try to get him talking and see what he gives away. The answer whether he has AA is probably written on his face. I'd call, but I'd take my time to work through information.

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03-01-2011 , 01:18 AM

#17

Dan_The_Pro

adept

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 916

Quote:

Originally Posted by endodocdc

I would think the same thing....U're up in the session. Walk away.

1. Being up the session makes no difference.
2. If he is sometimes loose and bluffs then his range is easily wide enough to call.
3. I would shove against you with any hand that I thought beats the all ins range. If this guy has 88-qq, aq+ it leaves him no choice but shove or fold.
4. Snap call imo

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03-01-2011 , 01:28 AM

#18

AintNoLimit

Coach live/online NLHE

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,399

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

Here is how i run it down. I think villains like this will flat and shove AA almost 100%. Every combo.

It is possible that villain flats and shoves QQ, but i only think maybe 2 of 6 or 3 of 6 combos. So that means to me that its 2 to 1 in favor of AA. PLUS, i dont know whether villain would EVER shove QQ for this much. (if i saw him shove like this before then its back to the drawing board.

I fold and yawn.

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03-01-2011 , 01:32 AM

#19

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

I folded KK pre for the first time this weekend 300BBs deep. The guy did show the AA.

I agree, big shoves pre are AA so often...

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