Table Dynamics - 1/2 NL early Saturday afternoon. H is viewed as very TAG/Nit image literally only played 3 hands and won them all. Despite being this tight V1 and V2 are new to the table and have not seen my 'image'

V1 is 30 something dealer in the room. Waiting to play PLO, sat in with the max and called a 100 dollar flop shove with 22 on a QJ4 board. Pot was like 30 dollars at that point. V even told the shover what he had, stated he put him on AK, and when asked the shover if he wanted a fold, and was told yes, still made the call. He lost when the raiser showed KQ.

V2 is a 50 year old women. I have never played with her, but saw her transfer from another table. I had just returned from a lunch break and saw her watching a movie on an Ipad and was wearing big noise cancelling headphones - really giving off reg/pro vibes. V2 did not see the pocket two hands described earlier.


OTTH -

V1 is button stack -300
V2 is MP stack - 400
H is HJ stack - 600

No limps and V2 opens to 12, H looks down at KQcc and elects to make the call, V1 3bets to 50, V2 calls, and H elects to make the call (this is most likely fold pre both times, but thought V1 could be pretty wide based on earlier play/eagerness to get to PLO

Flop (150)

Qh6h3c

V2x, Hx, V1 overbet shoves for 250, even though it was not a snap call V1 makes the call relatively quickly....hero should most likely?

What are we putting the ranges on for V2 and V1? Also how would you play it if V2 does not make the call.

It's not 2 folds pre, I would have rather 3bet V2, but once you flatted, I don't like the call of the 3bet.

There's a lot in their range AA, KK, QQ, and AQ which would suck for us. That's why it's easier to play more aggressive pre by 3betting, than calling and trying to hit the flop, then when we do we're still in no mans land almost.

The overbet could be her protecting her hand against the flush (a hand that beats us) or less likely in a 1/2 game from someone watching movies a FD, so I would fold.

People who watch movies with giant headphones are about 30x more likely to be a terrible reg than a pro. Just a heads up.

3bet pre. Call is next best option and fold is the worst by a lot.

3betting pre makes everything much easier. When we call we have no idea where we're at and we've capped ourselves.

As played if v didn't call then it's a snap call but since he did I guess we can fold... It's super close tho and I could see myself calling it off if I had any type of read that made me think I might be good more often than usual.

Just 3bet pre the first time around, but call is obv better than fold.

Call the second time around, never fold to the loose V1 who plays PLO. KQs doesn’t fair well against a tight top 3% 3bet range but this PLO dude is going to be 3betting much wider than that. Fine to call the second time.

I don’t know what ranges to put the players on. V1 can have a flush draw or an overpair or KQ/AQ — given the overbet shove, it feels more like a draw, or a very weak and vulnerable hand like JJ, but I’m not sure tbh. V2 can have a flush draw or Qx like QJs/KQ/AQ.

Idk, it’s pretty close with our KQ after V2 calls. If V2 folds it’s a slam dunk call obv. I feel we are losing to a lot of AQ in V2s spot. It is quite unlikely that both players would have flush draws.

Watching a movie with headphones. Middle aged. Sounds like a nitreg, not a pro. Makes me want to fold on the flop even more.

So just for clarification -

V1 is the spazzy youngish dealer type & V2 is the older women with headphones.

Just a heads up, these assumptions can often cost you money in the long run - so the guy plays PLO, how do you know he's gonna be 3betting so wide, and how do we know he's loose? He called a flop jam for $100 with what he thought was a bluff catcher, so without knowing even if he's even 3bet in his life, I just put unknowns on a standard 3bet range which is on the narrow side until I can confirm otherwise.

I agree, I would fold to the 3bet pre.

3bet the first time. As played, fold to the 3bet. As played, snap fold now.

If V2 folds, I might call V1, but probably just let it go depending on the table read. He called w/ 22 -- he didn't shove with it.

Ranges for V1 vary greatly. I imagine the worst cards V2 has is AhKh.

Idk, you may be right.

I’ll try to explain my thinking (and I ran some equity calculations so we have numbers to look at). If you want to critique any points, please do so.

When I run KQs in 3way equity calculator versus a 4% BTN 3bet range like {TT+,AK,AQs,A5s} and a calling range of {88-QQ,87s-KQs,AK,AQ, ATs-AJs,KJs} I get 25% equity for KQs.

We have to call 38 into a pot of 112 so we need 25% equity.

So the pot odds and equities match on my first try at assigning ranges. However: Usually we underrealize equity from OOP and when holding a capped range (IE as a preflop cold caller). We do have position on one player in the hand, so it’s not the worst situation. There is a penalty here, but it should not be as severe as if we were considering a call closing the action in he blinds.

There is weak evidence that the BTN may be 3betting wider than the 4% I cited, due to the fact he bought in for the max and he is waiting for what I assume is a bigger game. He displayed gambly vibes from the 22 hand history, though I agree it is not indicative of his aggression level preflop.

About the 22 hand history: this implies the BTN is spewing chips postflop, so facing any borderline preflop decision, we should feel more inclined to continue.

Overall, I do think I still favor a preflop call the second time around, taking into account the limited background information present in the HH.

I do think the OP may have some issues with his reads, though. V2 watching a movie and wearing headphones is very likely not a pro.

Hand Results -

H makes a pretty quick fold.

V2 flips over A9hh and turns the nut flush. V1 never shows but throws his hand into the muck and looks upset.

My real question from this hand history is what could V1 have had to overbet shove the flop. And if V2 had folded would you have made the call with KQcc?


Thank you for the replies.

Who knows? A lot of PLO players are used to just betting pot when they bet, so, he could view the 250 as close enough to pot and just be using that size with every value/semibluff hand. He could have an overpair,Qx (mostly better than yours), or a flush draw.

The 22 hand shows that he’s rather clueless about hand value in NL, so maybe he could even have JJ/TT. One would think he shouldn’t take this size with JJ/TT, but some players just want to end the hand here and now. He figures he’s committed with JJ/TT. IE he would call an all-in if either you or V2 made that bet, and so he figures it’s fine for him to jam.

Very hard to make accurate reads into his thought process. But IMO the 22 hand is indicative that you’ll find more spew than you’d normally expect with this line.

I’m still happy to call if V2 folds. You have backdoor clubs which adds about 4% equity to your hand. IMO you could consider folding without the backdoor draw or if he had made a >2x pot shove.