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KK vs a cute girl KK vs a cute girl

06-19-2014 , 12:31 AM
I have maniac image/rep. Villain is kind of a maniac too, esp for a cute girl. She's been 3 betting me a lot and vice versa. She's been getting the best of me in the session, and the previous session she won a huge pot (~18k) aipf with 99 vs my QJ suited (you had to be there). Tonight the dynamics are lower key, but a big pot could easily happen. She just bluffed off 2k to someone a few minutes ago. Effective stacks ~ 10k...

Some awesome Asian dude who I bluff all the time and he drinks 1 beer with me per session limps ep, villainess goes 70 mp, some chill guy who is not particularly great at this game calls next to act, folds to me in bb and I go 360 with KK. All 3 awesome people call...

Pot is 1450. AT5r. Check around.

Turn Ar. Check, check, villainess 750, fold, call, fold.

Pot is 2950. River 7. Hero thinks about a lot of things and then leads 1240. Villainess does some funny stuff with her chips and finally puts a pink chip on top of 1240 and slides it out there. It's 5k to win a little over 10k. Do people bluff 5k enough on rivers in 10-20 here to call? She obv knows I'm polarized to like AJ+ and some missed gunshots/spaz floats. She should have sdv a good amount. She can't think I'm much of a folder. Is my line even chill? wtf

Thanks in advance.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 12:44 AM
I don't really understand your river donkbet. What are you trying to achieve here? If you think you have the best hand, let her bluff. You never ever have a good hand with this line ( except for maybe AA and AT ). Also I don't agree that you can still rep AJ the way you played it. Seems like a villain dependent spot. Your line screams weakness so if she is aggro and has decent handreading skills it might be a call. Really dislike river donkbet though
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by complexion
I don't really understand your river donkbet. What are you trying to achieve here? If you think you have the best hand, let her bluff. You never ever have a good hand with this line ( except for maybe AA and AT ). Also I don't agree that you can still rep AJ the way you played it. Seems like a villain dependent spot. Your line screams weakness so if she is aggro and has decent handreading skills it might be a call. Really dislike river donkbet though
Pretty much this would much rather a cr on river but your dynamic is definitely interesting I don't think I have ever gotten it in pre with qj more then 100 BBS but def with 99. Actually for some reason any time someone 4bets me and I have a 9 in my hand I seem to gii... But I digress. As played fold would have really liked to see this hand play out except with a river cr
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 01:20 AM
Hard to describe my image/her reading. But def thought she would think AJ+ or air. Against my perceived range + her range I like donk bet a lot actually. I would never check air obv, and she is gonna check back but also call with most of her range IMO.

C/r??? Expand plz timebomb.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 01:42 AM
might go a tad more pre, good sizing regardless
x/f turn
x/soulread river as played
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF
Hard to describe my image/her reading. But def thought she would think AJ+ or air. Against my perceived range + her range I like donk bet a lot actually. I would never check air obv, and she is gonna check back but also call with most of her range IMO.

C/r??? Expand plz timebomb.
Seems like she is going to always bet river and it is waaay stronger then just donking. Not that I really expected her to raise your river bet since it is a bit weird/valuey considering calling is pretty marginal in comparison IMO. Unless you were trying to induce... But then I don't think this thread would exist. Honestly can't remember ever playing against a competent maniac, even the thinking ones were a bit predictable and would always pull this move on me in this exact spot when I had an A. I'm not really sure if I would cc or cr as a merge probably would depend on a lot of other factors like how much rebuy money I had on me lol. I think what it all boils down to is her having just failed a bluff make it more or less likely this hand will be a bluff? Probably more. She checked in position and you checked twice you both look fos.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gangip
might go a tad more pre, good sizing regardless
x/f turn
x/soulread river as played
Why fold turn? This is pretty absurd given vills description. Cc is def the easiest way to play this hand and is still a +.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 03:01 AM
was this against the asian (korean) actress? sounds like shes the type to play the 99 hand that way.

i like the line you took and def think the river lead is best (esp if its against her she checks back a ton but makes horrendous calls if you let her).

i think on river when you lead she is the type that will for sure raise w/ an ace due to your image. im not sure also about her handreading but i think if she views you as a maniac she'l def make "thin" raises when she thinks she has the best hand.

i think you can find a fold though i just dont see ppl bluff rivers in this game against ppl that are viewed as maniacs. also b/c she saw you get in Q hi pre against her in the past makes it way less likely that shes trying to bluff you here.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 09:31 AM
How does your flop check affect her view of your range?

Given the action, I certainly would not be expecting you to show up with a good A here if I were Villain, so I guess I call as played. Prefer c/c on the river.

Last edited by Rococo; 06-19-2014 at 09:38 AM.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 09:55 AM
It's incredibly tragic how you mention it's a cute girl and call her a "villainess" like that has anything to do with the hand whatsoever. Take your sexual frustration out elsewhere.

Don't lead river or else you put yourself in this ****ty spot lol
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeBomb
Seems like she is going to always bet river and it is waaay stronger then just donking. Not that I really expected her to raise your river bet since it is a bit weird/valuey considering calling is pretty marginal in comparison IMO. Unless you were trying to induce... But then I don't think this thread would exist. Honestly can't remember ever playing against a competent maniac, even the thinking ones were a bit predictable and would always pull this move on me in this exact spot when I had an A. I'm not really sure if I would cc or cr as a merge probably would depend on a lot of other factors like how much rebuy money I had on me lol. I think what it all boils down to is her having just failed a bluff make it more or less likely this hand will be a bluff? Probably more. She checked in position and you checked twice you both look fos.
I was not trying to induce.

I don't think people bluff river bricks very often after getting called on the turn on a board like this.

Not sure if her failed bluff makes her more or less likely to bluff here. In general, I think it makes people less likely to do it.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstevens
was this against the asian (korean) actress? sounds like shes the type to play the 99 hand that way.

i like the line you took and def think the river lead is best (esp if its against her she checks back a ton but makes horrendous calls if you let her).

i think on river when you lead she is the type that will for sure raise w/ an ace due to your image. im not sure also about her handreading but i think if she views you as a maniac she'l def make "thin" raises when she thinks she has the best hand.

i think you can find a fold though i just dont see ppl bluff rivers in this game against ppl that are viewed as maniacs. also b/c she saw you get in Q hi pre against her in the past makes it way less likely that shes trying to bluff you here.
Yeah. We were playing 3-handed 20-40 though when we got it in with QJ v 99...

I haven't played a ton with her, but in general people never fold anything with sdv against me on the river. And they don't bet/raise all that thin either very often.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
How does your flop check affect her view of your range?

Given the action, I certainly would not be expecting you to show up with a good A here if I were Villain, so I guess I call as played. Prefer c/c on the river.
This deep, this dry, I don't think a flop check takes top pair out of my range too much. I could def be wrong though...
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokybacon
It's incredibly tragic how you mention it's a cute girl and call her a "villainess" like that has anything to do with the hand whatsoever. Take your sexual frustration out elsewhere.

Don't lead river or else you put yourself in this ****ty spot lol
ummm. ok.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 11:16 AM
i am not a fan of betting river so we can avoid spots like this. if we know she is capable of bluff raising river i like a x/c. as played are ever checking AJ AQ AJ on this flop multi-way?

i think i might strongly consider calling because your hand looks like JJ-KK the way you played it and you described V as competent enough to make big bluffs
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 12:23 PM
Think the river is definitely too thin vs a good player but if shes calling too wide its ok I guess....think Id just fold the river without some insane reads - I would think your squeeze range here out of the bb is really tight and is composed mainly of big Ax - I think since we led the river she could still assume we have all of our Ax in our range thus her trying to bluff this river would be suicide.....either way Id just fold here - if shes bluffing here it should be pretty easy to print money off her in the future
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstevens
was this against the asian (korean) actress? sounds like shes the type to play the 99 hand that way.

i like the line you took and def think the river lead is best (esp if its against her she checks back a ton but makes horrendous calls if you let her).

i think on river when you lead she is the type that will for sure raise w/ an ace due to your image. im not sure also about her handreading but i think if she views you as a maniac she'l def make "thin" raises when she thinks she has the best hand.

i think you can find a fold though i just dont see ppl bluff rivers in this game against ppl that are viewed as maniacs. also b/c she saw you get in Q hi pre against her in the past makes it way less likely that shes trying to bluff you here.
This
I never post on this forum but like to flick it open well taking a sh*t. I always tend to agree with DGAG's replies, so when I saw people like smokybacon flaming and others saying to x/r river which has to be the worst line I finally felt the need to post.

I think you l played it perfect now b/f river.

And just cause you always say it, cute girl getting 225bb's aipf with 99 @ 20/40... pic or it didn't happen imo.

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KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 02:04 PM
DGAF*

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KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 02:46 PM
I think she'd expect you to lead turn with AJ+ and to bet flop with your gutters. I also think she'd bet flop with her gutters. For sure your river lead confused her, but I can't find many bluffs she can have. Maybe Tx or just total air? If she's the type to 4bet Ax suited pre then call. If she's taking a flop with most of her range cause she wants to keep the rec. players in then fold. She can't expect you to lead/fold JJ-KK otr (though I doubt she expects you to lead them at all), and that is your most likely hand when you c/c the turn.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 03:01 PM
Does she really think you're leading KK otr here? I mean I'm all for going for thin value but against a maniac I'd much rather c/eval here since she'll rarely be giving up and checking back.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 04:01 PM
I don't like this bet unless it's to induce. I've played with her fwiw, and think she can raise river here pretty damn thin for value so inducing here is sketchy but she's bat**** enough that it's an option.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAismyfriend
I don't like this bet unless it's to induce. I've played with her fwiw, and think she can raise river here pretty damn thin for value so inducing here is sketchy but she's bat**** enough that it's an option.
So then I guess induce/call is a little better then cr, although I think both lines are too high variance. I am starting to think she might check back 10 sometimes making this hand very questionable any way you play it.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 04:57 PM
I think cr is really bad vs her. She folds better exactly 0pct of the time imo.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 05:00 PM
Not sure why we have to try to get all fancy against a maniac - what ever happened to just letting them hang themselves? If we lose value (by her checking back) because of the runout/number of players in the hand, then so be it. I'd rather keep the pot smaller OOP than get into a raising/guessing war otr when she has the potential to own my soul when I'm holding this particular hand.
KK vs a cute girl Quote
06-19-2014 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAismyfriend
I think cr is really bad vs her. She folds better exactly 0pct of the time imo.
That's fine but how often does she fold worse? I think having more info this isn't as good as I initially thought probably a little worse then bet folding. Cc seems best unless you really just think you can induce a river bluff better by betting then checking. Keep in mind this is an incredibly vill Dependant hand so I'd make sure I was pretty confident in my reads before bet calling. Fwiw I'm assuming you have a strictly value range pre and check pretty much 100% of flops?
KK vs a cute girl Quote

      
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