5/5/10NL

Hero has stack of $1200, most villains cover. Session has been going for around 2 hours. Hero is most likely viewed as TAG due to being fairly card dead - but also because i havent found a situation yet where i need to do anything tricky. Table is aggro, very aggro. But this is mainly fuelled by a few key villains tangling regularly.

V1 (BB) - A very good player. Speaks of being a regular at 25/50 when he is at a casino where it runs, and i believe him based on his play. He's not LAG, but not TAG. Somewhere in between if that makes sense. Has bombed flops previously fairly selectively in good spots, and im yet to see him show down a hand. Has about $2k in front of him.

V2 (MP2) - LAGgy. Can be quite creative, but generally is readable. Capable of making moves and his moves are so far working for him.

V3 (LP) - New player, no reads as yet. $1000.

V4 (Btn) - LAGgy. One of the main offenders in the LAG-off competition that seems to be going on around me. He can play though. Ive taken money off him in previous sessions by letting him barrel me when i have a hand.

Hero is UTG+1 with KK. 1 fold, Hero opens to 55. MP2, LP, Btn, BB all call. The rest fold.

($290) Flop is QJ9
V1 (BB) leads for $250. Hero...?

Its all pretty standard up until this point, but id like to hear some opinions on how to procede from here. Keep in mind the level of thinking on this table, my image, his image, and the fact that both me and villain 1 are aware of our images. Oh, and the fact that there are 3 players behind me still to act.

gogogo

As some of the better players that post here say... ship it and yawn!

I seen ivey play a hand like this before.

I would just flat call since we have position a overpair and open ended straight draw and a hand we need to see the turn card.

Raising a psb from a good player is suicide, since he will have a set or straight already most of the time.

Ok here's a question to get us started.

What is my range in the eyes of v1?

And,

Given my range, in what situations would v1 donk into me?

i am snap folding. seriously. this is your nightmare flop. your absolute best case scenario is coin flipping against a combo draw.

Phil ivey couldn't lay this hand down. Either your too good, or you know something I don't know about holdem.

Since he does not have you on KT, his range includes lots of draws. You have blockers to many of them. LOL to the "good" players shipping with one pair on a wet board.

Call and evaluate the turn. You have positioin and can get him off any draw OTT when he checks a brick. Hands that dominate you like sets and two pair will ship the turn if a brick hits because he will be afraid of a draw and will slow both of you down. A scare card on the turn will save you money if he has a set. The only thing to fear is a OOP bluff - which isnt that likely against the pre flop raiser and a wet board.

BTW you should bet more pre flop if a $55 bet getting 4 callers is standard and you have KK. After 2 hours you should have figured out what size bet gets you 1-2 callers and what size bet will isolate you against the stations.

$55 pre gets you 4 callers and that's pretty standard in your game?! Wow, if that's the case I would have made it more to try to get just one or two callers. This must be a home game.

Your SPR is 4 so technically you can get it in here, but I really hate this flop. We can't beat much and TT and the NFD have great equity against us. And we're not going to be super-stoked if we turn a set. Plus, there's 3 others behind, and this flop rates to hit them hard.

Conservatively, your range rates to be 99+ and big Aces and that nails the flop. So for villain to still be donking out into a giant field shows a lot of strength.

I would call and see what happens.

Yes, but Phil Ivey plays with uber-LAGs who could be leading out with total air or hands like 98 with a plan for what to do on future streets.

And Phil Ivey can also have total air in his hand, so there's no way he can lay down KK here to the likes of Dwan and Antonius.

Most villains don't play like that so their ranges are a bit more narrow. Very few villains can donk bluff this exact flop into 4 others and expect to take it down.

let me clarify... PFR of 55 is standard. 4 callers is not standard. otherwise i would have raised more

To the people saying flat and re-evaluate: what do you do if someone behind you squeezes? are you trying to take this hand to the showdown?

Also, DD is the only one thus far that seems to have considered what the villain donking out actually means. Thats the part that concerns me the most, and is the part that i feel is the key to the hand

ILCD: so you would play our hand as a draw? If we're behind, we're not getting the right odds to draw to a hand that beats a set, and we have almost 0 fold equity vs a set

FOLD,

my KK go directly in the mack with no regrets. i don't know about you but for me "the hand" i have is a combination of my two pocket cards, the flop texture and the number of opponents. in this specific case scenario i suspect my Kings (KK) alone as an over-pair are no good and the best i can expect is i'm drawing. well, i don't want to call $250 and draw because if i do that i become pot committed and i know i will have to put the rest of stack on the turn. i can make a case for a shove on the flop but i don't like that too because what i have invested so far is just $55 with $945 left in front of me. why i want to play for stacks on the draw? - no! i'm not gonna do that for sure. i will fold this hand very easy and never look back.

for me to continue with KK, i either got to flop another K or have a different flop texture that is uncoordinated. if i don't flop a set i will continue on an uncoordinated flop but even in that scenario i know that i have to pot control. but that's just me and please don't take this advise to your heart. play the way you think is best because you probably know more that i do. i play every day and i know so much poker that i'm not impressed with AA or KK, (over-pair or some kind of draw or some kind of TPTK - haha, lol, lol..). ..., i don't care, it means nothing to me.

che,

I am not afraid of a squeeze/bluff here. A raise against V1 is a mistake. If it happens, you get to see V1 act and if he folds, he was on a draw. Either way, I am folding - happy I didnt shove.

We are not trying to get to a showdown. We are hoping for a brick/check on the turn so we can bet. If it is scare/check on the turn we are hoping for cheap showdown. I am not planning on calling it down.

The villian donking out is scary, but I still think he is betting any draw because he does not want to call with a draw. I think he would c/r KT. Because the draws are such a large part of his range and I know that no matter what, I have some EV, I am calling.

Our hand is to good to not see a turn card. Not good enough for a raise. A overpair and flopping open ended straight draw is like the nuts. We flat in position since we know we have no fe given the amount of his bet. Flatting is also good because I'm pretty sure this pot is goin heads up to the turn.

I'm not worried about a squeeze. A donk and a call in front of the other villains should scare them off.

the reason a call is warranted is because villain just telegraphed his hand or has a semi bluff since he plays higher limits. Since he is polarized it will be stupid to raise and dumb to fold. Since we can potentially get his whole stack.

Not playing for stack in this spot, and the $250 bet from BB is his declaration that he will be playing for stack.

With 3 players behind, this would be an easy laydown.

Calling is worst IMO, and we are essentially allowing squeeze to take place. If hero has intent to play for stack, with his own reasoning, then calling with intent to get it all-in is applicable here.

Calling with intent to see turn and then evaluate? Good luck with that plan in this spot, unless you're playing a table full of donks.

I was with you till the last sentance. Villian is not getting it allin with a hand that loses to one pair.

The hand that ivey had was JJ on a Q 10 9 flop and durrrr donked into him from the small blind. Ivey flatted in position hit his straight on the turn, durrrr donked again ivey shoved. Enough said lol

What does villain exPect me to do with an overpair when he donks into me on a draw heavy board? V1 is no mug. He knows that this flop hit a lot of my range hard.

I have a tag image and opened from ep. What's in my range that I didnt get a piece ofthis flop with? Surely he expects me to show up with a hand here most of the time

Wow, I am officially convinced that you have little clue about what you're talking about.

Did you even look at the hand?

Is this your way of saying that villain is playing for stack, and you are willing to do the same?

Right...you know that because this isn't a spot to be squeezed...see below.

Do you even know what a squeeze is? If above is not a recipe for squeeze, then please enlighten me what is.

I give up, why bother?

Dudes really go hard on me on here.

Its simple we are the preflop aggressor. Our one pair hand is is vulnerable. But since we flopped a straight draw. Are hand can improve on the next street. Or we can bluff villain repping Ak since we are the preflop aggressor.

Our range is 6 combos of Aces, 6 of kings, 16 of AK 3 of QQ, KQ, AQ, AJ, AT.

A huge part of our range is AK, so he has good reason to bet lots of hands he is losing with. He doesnt mind gettin money in right now with a draw and he is flipping. He might expect a raise from you if you have an overpair, and he would be fine calling it this early in the hand with a draw. He will be afraid of a smooth call from you, so if a brick comes, I dont think he is semi bluffing the turn.

If he is 50/50 draw to made hand, it costs you $250 to win $540 and 2/3 of the cards in the deck are not scare cards and we are in position. So 2/3 of the time a brick comes... half the time we see a check and win the pot. If a scare card comes, we are checking it down and hoping he has AQ.

I guess the thought of folding a big pocket pair never crosses your mind.

Do you beat the games in Cali? I am contemplating moving down there.

Is it me or we somehow forgot there are 3 players left behind?

Please notice that there is no 10 on the board and re evaluate the hand

Wow I'm so off, excuse me folks I did not see there is a 9 on the board.

Disregard anything I said.

I fold lmao

I am lost here, is that your estimate of hero's perceived range by villains?