Hero: Young Asian male. Solid tight-aggressive player. No history with villain. Probably perceived as pretty aggro and a little splashy by villain. Has mostly been raising pre and cbetting flop to varying degrees of success. 3bet villain's open once with AK and took it down on 886 flop. Called a shortstack's shove earlier in the night with QJ after hero opens to $45 after $15 straddle and shorty shoves for 85 total. Only big hand was when hero doubled up through huge whale after hero raised pre, cbet, and checkraised with AQ on a 962Q board. Whale shoves with 97, hero snaps and holds up.

Villain: Mid 30s white guy. Mediocre/so-so LAG. Other players call him "Money Mike" since he spews, but hasn't gotten out of line tonight. Definitely splashy though. Has been running really good (got aces 5 times and flopped 2 sets since game started 3 hours ago). Raises a lot preflop, has no problem potting 3 streets with TPGK, so maybe tends to overvalue hands. Usually cbets, but doesn't really multibarrel. Weird preflop sizing. One hand he raises to 15 pre after 3 limpers with KT, and all three limpers call. Flop KQ6, and he fires 65 after it checks to him. Only whale calls. Turn comes brick, whale checks, and villain puts him all in for 200. Whale calls with JT and bricks. Another hand, 3 limpers and villain makes it 23 in BB announcing he's "feeling lucky." Only one passive ABC limper calls. Villain holds 87 and proceeds to check it down with the caller on a T652 board. When spade hits river, our villain just check-calls $25. Weird. One more hand, no limpers no straddle, villain makes it 65 in EP with AJ, and only whale in BB calls. Flop comes 882, and villain takes it down with a $125 (!) cbet.

$1/3 $500 max home game

SB
BB
UTG Villain ($1000)
EP
EP2 Hero ($1000)
MP
MP2
LP
Button

Hero is dealt KK

Big whale in LP straddles $6, blinds fold, Villain makes it $23, Hero raises to $75, folds to Villain who pauses a bit and 4bets to $190 total, Hero calls, since SPR is small and hero wants to keep weaker hands in his range.

Flop ($380): T98

Villain instashoves for $810. Hero?

Seems like a snap call with spr as low as it is. Against this V I would just gii pre. Doesn't seem like the type to fold with 20% of his stack in.

I expect V to show up with all sorts of hands here. I see this type of V in my games and they are capable of anything. If you are beat here I would expect you to get it back later against this type of player. Hope you got a good roll for this game...

Curious, did he show the last AJ hand you saw him cbet and take down on the flop? These guys like to show to help them get paid later. Seems like there is nothing you can do here though but call.

that's ugly deep spot imo

weaker hands in his range after 4bet sounds very thin

would lie to hear what others say before making a decision here...

Yeah he showed the AJ hand after he won, but he tends to show his hands after he wins more often than not, regardless of the strength of the hand. He's just as likely to show a set of aces after getting no action as he is to show a bluff.

I think you can 4bet pre since villain looks to overplay hands and can easily see jj/AQs+ here. He's also not timid on the flop potting his AJ high from earlier so I see him capable of shoving as a cbet too. As played just snap it off.

we got 4bet, we can only 5bet pre before the flop.
I wouldn't mind being the 4bettor in this spot imo, than the one being 4bet this deep

Do u feel lucky ? Call if u do, fold if u don't. He has AA or QQ 50/50.

Do you recall board texture on the 3 hands where he had aces and didn't flop a set? Solve that riddle and you should have your answer

Idk can't we just click it back super small pre and stack off on any flop. Dude sounds bad, I wouldn't have much problem getting it in vs a bad lag.

Results OP?

I'd like to get some more feedback before posting results. Seems like I'm not the only one that's confused by this spot.

Why call the huge 4-bet if you're not getting it in on flops like this. You obviously have V labeled as laggy, so either fold KK pre (yeah, you can do this) or get it in here, happily.

1+

Fold or jam pre* I meant. Great board for JJ

Since we presume villain doesn't play his huge draws fast and he's 4-bet us preflop, are we only putting him on AA? If his range includes KK-JJ & AT and naked J's, we call.

we can't just randomly give him AT, because flop came Thigh. That's same as giving him A6 when flop come 632.

If you "feel lucky, call"? Seriously?

I feel like he wants you to fold, which makes me inclined to call. But, why does he want you to fold? Doesn't want his AA or QQ do get snapped off on a draw heavy board?

Do you think he 4 bets 88 - TT and then open jams a set here for the same reasoning? That seems unlikely, at least for 88, and I'd expect him to check raise a set here.

Surely 77 is not in his 4 bet range.

He can't have AK of clubs, but possibly AQ or AJ of clubs. Are those in his 4bet range? Is it possible that he is just spewing off with AK here?

Really tough spot I think. Unless he can open spew with AK here, you're hoping to see QQ as your best hand to be ahead of. He only has 6 outs with QQ. He has 10 outs with JJ, 15 outs with AQcc and 17 outs with AJcc, and of course you're beat by everything else.

I don't have stove in front of me, but reading that makes this sound like a fold. Ewww. Am I a nit?

I prolly still call.

yeah genuinly tough spot. Very hard to range. There are multiple reasons for him doing this on this board, JJ QQ he is thinking "I don't care if I'm behind I have cards to the nuts to hit the straight, with sets he's thinking "this pot is too big to be sucked out on I'm just getting it in now and I don't care what happens, he could also be shoving AA/KK, then there is a small grey area he just decided to do something stupid with a ramdomish type hand pre and has gotten lucky with 2 pair or straight or pair and combo draw, but this is fairly unlikely he 4bets pre under these conditions but I don't think we can rule it out entirely, then we have to factor in he could be grossly over valuing A10 or just saying eff it with his AK. Out of all of this confusion and the fact the table is soft I probably find a fold here, saying that I am certainly talking to him about is hand to gage his reaction I may even show him the KK before I fold/call to see how he reacts.

+1

we flatted his 4bet and to a bad player he has to think we are weaker then we are.

I'm calling here.

AA and pocket tens I can see as the value hands that would most likely play the hand this way with 4-bet and decision to shove after a semi rough board that is worried about bad turn and or river cards.

Kk, JJ and QQ could easily play the hand this way. Once again shoving the flop to shut down post flop play. I don't have poker stove in front of me but I do believe given this range he has greater ev then you considering when he has QQ he has 6 outs twice and 10 outs twice with JJ. This adds more equity to his hand when he is behind while tens and AA you only have two outs twice not making up the same ev that opponent has when he is behind.

Wow tough spot. I guess I would tank call and fingers crossed there is enough AK spazzes or I ran directly into QQ. JJ are okay obviously but just hate to see the extra straight outs I have to sweat. Your hand is under repped making this a call. I would have 5-bet pre against said opponent

Don't really see how you can fold if description is right.

Just construct a range of what 4bets and ships this flop. That's your answer.

I'm getting it in pre against "money mike". AP I think this is a call. If we are calling pre with the plan of set mining otf, then I think we should just fold pre. Our read is that he tends to overvalue one pair type hands. We are ahead of a large portion of his range that takes this line lets gii.

I don't think I've ever seen a 4 better fold to a 5bet.