V1- (600) Is a "feeling" player. He says, "aww man I had a feeling you was doing that," at least once an orbit. For the ~100 hands I had played with him rarely did he show aggression unless it was a super standard value spot. Second actual session with him, and I did win a 150BB pot off him the day before with a set that didn't go to showdown. He might still harbor anger as I did sort of hit and run him to go play a tournament. (played an orbit later)

V2- (180) standard passive drooler

Hero- (375) viewed as a winning TAG if anyone at the table knows what TAG means. Won a 60BB hand on a double float/bomb river and showed the bluff earlier. Also made a relatively big fold to a turn shove a couple orbits previous.

V1 makes it 7 ( first time I've seen this raise size)
V2 calls
Hero OTB makes it 30
Blinds fold and both v's snap call

876r flop ($93) and V1 leads for 60 V2 folds

My thinking here is that he does this with QQ JJ, sets, two pair hands and the occasional 89 combo draw. I think 99-1010 go into C/c mode here almost always. I opt to call/evaluate turn

Jh turn and villain immediately ships in 500 or our effective 285. Hero tanks and villain starts eating his cheese fries like it's his last meal. We?

I fold were only beating a bluff and calling a 2x pot sized bet is on that is gutsy

it's not a 2x pot bet. it's about 2/3 pot.

FTR, the bet is ~285 or about 1.3x

sorry i misread but looking now it still is 285 into the 213 pot, still a fold for me

Expect to see 78 or 67 a lot here. Turn shove should confirm.

So u thought 89 might bet the flop this way but not 99? I think it's a pretty tough spot but a fold

I don't think it happens often, but I do think recreational players value a pair and OESD more than 99 here. Sort of I hit this board and I have a straight draw... lets bet. Whereas, 99 the first thought is I have an over pair I wonder what he has. I think it's just easier for a non thinking opponent to be more tentative and form a rudimentary ranging tool with an over pair. It's pretty trivial though, because I don't know that either hand turn shoves, and I beat both on the flop. What if the turn is a 2? Does that tip this to more of a call?

Fold. Snap call if it's crab fries, though.

sorry what do you have?

You don't even include villains positions

Villain description is useless. Is he passive or aggressive preflop? Typically players who are passive aren't raising any two pair hands and are flatting 88-66 frequently. You have to weigh his range towards over pairs, which means the flop is a clear raise and the turn is a clear call.

Wow.. I have no idea how that happened. It was UTG and UTG+1
I have literally no reads on his aggression because I haven't seem him play a hand outside of limp/value betting obvious spots and the occasional aq ak 12-15 raise. I have not seen him raise this size at all in 100 hands. I don't understand what you mean by flatting. Other than the flop 3/bet call, he had initiative. I really don't see the point of raising this flop 150BB deep. I think that's more often than not lighting money on fire.

I fold because I think all of his value hands are prone to doing this because they're all vulnerable and we have a strong range. It seems much more likely to me that he's doing this with 88/87s/etc because he doesn't want a 4th card to the straight to come than it does that he's trying to fold an overpair (every live player ever always puts you on an overpair here).

We need 43.8% to call, and the most optimistic range I could think of: {JJ+, 99-88, 87s-T9s} gave us 40.8%.

this is def a fold in my opinion

passive player, odd opening size and shove =Fold.

Initiative? How? Not being rude but I think you are giving his donk bet more credit for a monster than it deserves. Most often when a passive player does this it's an info bet or semibluff and he's drawing. Most 1/2 players aren't going to lead their monsters into someone who 3 bet even with another player in. They'll play for a c/r in most instances.

By not raising the flop you've allowed him to completely take control of the hand and he should know you are going to have a very hard time calling a shove on the turn as you almost have to have 1 pair or AK.

Raising the flop imo is absolutely profitable and not lighting money on fire. Calling just to get blown off your hand on the turn is a much bigger leak.

Im folding here, overbet from this kinda player is rarely a (semi)bluff in my experience

He either saw how much fun it is to act like a little kid and show a bluff and that's what he's planning to do, or he has the winning hand. Hard to tell from your description.

It is KK, just like in the title.

I think this is over-generalization. There isn't really such thing as a monster on this board, per se, because there's not a single invulnerable hand. Villain probably puts us on QQ+ after preflop, and there's a very good chance that he'll think, "I have him schooled; let's get the money in before my decisions get tough."

He initiated the flop and turn action, thus he had initiative.

I absolutely agree that MOST times a villain goes for a C/r with his monsters here, and if we have 100 bb I'm shoveling money in here faster than you can imagine. However, even though we have a SPR of 3.5, it seems fundamentally bad to raise this flop/get it in with one pair. I never want to lose a 350BB pot to a recreational player with one pair. It would be completely different if I had a read on him that he was a TAG/LAG/NIT but my read is very nebulous and I included all pertinent info that might lead a rec player to decide to do something out of character. I don't think its a big leak to take a check/eval line against a generally straightforward player at all.

What do you range him at to make a raise/call line profitable? Do we think his 99-QQ is just going... ok he has to be bluffing something... lets get it in? If he can put us on a hand like you assume. Raising here, folds out marginally worse hands including qq on occasion, imo

I'm going to say this is an easy fold. Villain overbet shoves the turn when the straight hits. I'm thinking that he shows up with set, two pairs, or straights. Also the note of villain munching on food, I would go ahead and say this is most likely a sign of strength.

I tank folded after a minute and the table chants show the bluff. He stood up and threw QQ my way while saying, "that ain't no bluff." So, I think we can safely assume he didn't turn QQ into a bluff. Is this a bad fold though? I know it seems like I'm being results oriented after seeing the ONE hand I thought I had beat, but I was hoping to turn this into a discussion about a 100BB+ stacking off threshold. I rarely have been put in a spot like this by this type of player, and I was kind of lost.