I got it in vs a short stack rec player over the weekend with AK vs KK and I spiked a wheel on the river. As I was pulling in the chips, I immediately thought, "Should I be opening my shipping range to include AQ suited or AQ off vs short stackers?"

After recently listening to Limon's stance on AK - just GII preflop and let the variance roll (if you are fully rolled) I have increased my aggression with this hand pre-flop. In the short term (5 instances) we are batting 5 for 5 with only one being a 30/70. Definitely a large enough sample size. lol JK.

Over the years, I have played AK and AQ very passively and very fit/fold. As my game is evolving, I am thinking about expanding my aggression to AQ as well.


So comment below and I will put up a poll as well.

You just ship 50bbs over an open? That seems a little drastic. 3 betting without shipping is a reasonable option.

It's all so villain dependent, it's a really hard question to answer.

It really is villain dependent. And stacks matter as well
Some omc raises big i am folding AQ and not even thinking about it.
If some guy has been 3 betting/raising a lot then I am happy to get it in usually ahead but not always sometimes they got the goods.
Stacks sizes matter a lot as well. 10-20bb I dont mind it too much but any more and i start to feel it is a leak.
As other mentioned 3 betting it is quite reasonable as well

Only read the poll but it's dependent on the part of the country. LA I'd guess is get ai, AC might be a fold, etc.

If he has 50 bbs don't ship, generally 3 bet to a normal size

Find something better to spend your time thinking about.

So he opens to 3bb and we raise to 9 bb and wiff the flop. Are we folding?

Should we be 3 betting larger (15bb) to ensure a ship on flop?


I guess my point is that playing this way vs a short stack with AK or AQ puts us at a huge disadvantage. It is a hand that reaches full equity with all 5 cards being seen.

Playing postflop seems to be -EV.

30 BB? Ship or 3bet?

Just trying to get better everyday. Sometimes I think about stuff that helps. Sometimes not.

You have to include positions. If there are more players left to act you can never just ship. Even vs a 3x heads up shipping 50 bbs is too big

I can't tell you what to do on every flop. If you give me a hypothetical I can try to answer

I know you say you have no reads, but what kind of default opening range are you assigning a typical $1/2 rec player?

Doesn't every hand reach it's full equity potential by seeing 5 cards though...

No. 7d7h has much more equity on 7c 8c 2d flop

than on

7c 8c 2d 9c Tc river.

My thinking is that Villains will be opening just as light as they would with a full stack (incorrectly). AT off and better, Suited Kx Suited broadways and Unsuited Broadways. 99 +.

IMO this is waaaaaaay too wide a range to assign an opening range. That said, off the top of my head go ahead and 3-bet this range as I'm guessing we're a significant favorite.

Assume HU, Hero last to act in BB with Villain opening to 3x. Raising here with AK AQ 99 + must be plus EV. But lets say we raise to 9x and the flop comes
9 3 2 rainbow or JJ2 ccd

with AK and AQ we are OOP and our opportunity to realize our max equity with this hand type is diminished.

It may sound insane but I would imagine that a ship here would give us immense fold equity and obv we are being snapped by AA KK QQ JJ TT. Only one of which we are dominated by.

I think that it is safe to assume that Villain also calls with AQ, AJ, ATs, Suited broadways, KQ, and 88/99. We are crushing this range. If he folds this entire range, only the AJ and At are true equity tragedies.

This is kinda where I am going. Lets say we are in BB and we 3bet to 9 bb.

The flop will have 18.5 BB and eff stacks are only 40 BB. With a 2 SPR and OOP, we are committing equity suicide long term with hands like AK and AQ.

Wouldn't it be better to either call or jam?

lol @ trying to dicuss these options without discussing a range for the opening player
Or at *least* the opening position.

In a 'readless' vacuum where I'm basicly pretending that I'm blindfold and just being told about the actions of the players I will
fold to and UTG or UTG+1 raise (maybe MP), 3bet mp1-HJ and flat co/btn/sb.

But since that is never the case in live poker and I can always generalize at least a little bit based on player age, players stack size, player chips denominations, chatting with the player, general 'at the table' habits, and 100 other things, this just doesn't really happen. And all of those actions will be a bit different based on those reads.

I can say that autopiloting 12+ tables or 4 tables of zoom poker without software creates exactly that "flying blind" feeling. I've done stuff like bug 3!s/shoving AK/AQ and it doesn't work out well! You can give it a try for small $$$ though...

And AQ has more equity on A 4 5 than on A 2 3 4 5.

And this is why general questions like this don't work in LLSNL. All you're doing is gambling if you're going to just raise blind. You should have reads as soon as you sit down and know the relative positions on hand 1.

I'll keep this open in hopes that Limon comes in to clear his name about auto jamming AK pf.

Recognizing good spots to jam the big Ace hands preflop, is a nice skill imo. OP did you see my thread last week?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...chips-1581440/

The question you've asked is way too vague. For example, start 4bet jamming AK and you'll soon appreciate how often LLSNL 3bet ranges are KK+.

Whether or not it's +ev is not the question. If we open shove AA utg it's +ev, but you wouldn't play it like that, would you?

You still didnt give a position of the pfr. On those boards btn vs bb I think cbetting something like 1/3 pot with your range is fine. I also think checking the JJ2 is ok/close.

If an unknown 50bb villain opens 3x utg, a stronger range than if he opened in late position on avg., I wouldn't 3 bet.

I didn't say Limon says auto jamming preflop is good. He does indicate that playing AK aggressively preflop is key and if you are 3/4 bet to ship in most cases preflop and ride the variance train.

Agreed. I looked at your post and it makes some good points. I should have picked a specific hand instead of rambling my thoughts in type. In 1/2 there are a ton of 50 bb gamblers that call with a huge range. But you are right. 3 betting is super strong in 1/2 by any stack.