2/3 blinds live, full ring

2nd orbit in, no real reads.

2 in EP limp, MP ($200) limps, CO limps, SB folds, Hero ($145) checks J T.

Flop ($12 after rake): A J T

Hero bets $15, folds to MP who raises to $45, folds to Hero.

Best play? (Shove or fold...)

Hard to see what you beat and it is hard to believe you checked with KQs. Fold.

if you bet here and get raised, now you have to fold. i would c/c flop.

Well, I guess I felt like I could beat the K Xx, plus hands like the K J, K T, Q J, Q T. Plus there's also the 98/Q9 with a , and the minute chances of AK/AQ.

From villain's perspective, I could be betting the NFD like the K 2...a BB special.

If villain believes that (and why not), he could be raising with a lone Ace, trying to prevent me from drawing cheaply.

get out on this bad flop.

Bottom two on this flop isn't a hand I want to play a big pot for. C/c flop and proceed.

As played, I fold.

"villain raising trying to prevent me from drawing cheaply" -> why would he consider a bet that's larger than the pot (by you) to be drawing cheaply? If you had bet $6, I could see leveling yourself into calling a raise, but this is a clear fold. Things aren't going to get better for you. fold > call > shove

As for the original bet, I don't mind it. If you c/c, you are often c/folding on the turn whereas making a bet can help you get to showdown more often/more cheaply against an ace or draw.

Shove and hit the J on the river obviously. Lol

Haha, yeah if I can't play well, I can always luckbox into a boat...

Really prefer a check/call line here. You really can't stand alot of heat with this hand. If he checks turn, you can lead the river. If he bets turn, you can easily fold.

As played, I would fold.

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT c/c this flop.

These idiots will call with any Ax, Jx, Tx, any gutshot and any spade. Why on earth would you want to miss value vs all of those hands????

Readless, I think we can fold to this flop raise. I don't feel like stoving it, but if we give him a range that includes all sets, flushes, straights, two pairs and occasionally a naked A or semi-bluff we are not in good shape. If we had some type of read that he would be likely to slowplay made flushes it would get tricky and folding would still be a decent option given that we will be OOP and his range will still include many bigger 2 pairs and straights in addition to some naked Ax hands.

How do you get 3k posts and still think like this? We aren't betting flop to get to showdown more cheaply, if anything our bets will likely be much larger than our opponent's bets (if we are sizing our bets well) making us pay MORE to "get to showdown". We are betting flop for value against a lot of players who will call multiple streets with worse. If we did not get raised on flop, and no K, Q or spade hits we should be betting all 3 streets for value. And it is FAT value, we aren't making thin vbets here. There are BILLIONS of hands that will call down here that we have completely crushed.

Bet/fold >>> check/call

For the reasons skraper said.