Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
JJ in a tough spot JJ in a tough spot

01-08-2023 , 03:56 PM
2-5 game I just moved over from the must-move game and only have been here for one orbit
Hero in CO with Js Jc ($840)
Villain on Button ($620)

Folds to Hero and raises to $20
Villain and BB call

Kc Tc 5s ($62)
BB checks, Hero bets $30, and Villain Calls

As ($122)
Hero checks, Villain bets $90, Hero Calls

Ac ($302)
Hero Checks, Villain bets $225

Hero?

I called the turn thinking I double block QJ for broadway and I am also holding the Jc. On the river, I was so confused about what to put the Villain on. On the turn, he was representing either turn broadway or having the nut flush draw that connected with the As. Then on the river, he is representing full house or flush. I think he raises on the flop with a set of T's and I think he re-raises pre-flop with pocket K's and AK. On the river, I also discounted KQ because he would have checked the river with showdown value. I couldn't give him many boats on the river here and really couldn't find many hands that play this way.

What do you guys think I should have done on the river?
Do you guys find my logic to be rational?
Does AxQc play this way (only two combos)?
Does Villain play Qc9c this way (only one combo)?
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 04:00 PM
Turn is probably a fold

River is definitely a fold
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 04:06 PM
I don’t think JJ is a great c-bet on a wet K high Broadway board multi-way.

AP I check fold turn.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 04:41 PM
Your logic is not rational. Give up flop and fold turn.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 05:03 PM
Flop is bad for you to bet multiway. Turn is a punt. Fold river.

EDIT

Villain can do this with any two clubs he calls pre with, 55, TT, AT, A5ss, QJ, AQ, AJ etc. You block like 3 of his hands but that doesn't mean he can't have them or something else. The problem with your thinking is that you personally wouldn't show up with many hands here but an unknown could have all the hands I'm listing for value.

Last edited by WereBeer; 01-08-2023 at 05:14 PM.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 05:49 PM
It may not be GTO-approved, but personally I like the flop cbet.

That being said, ott this is not a tough spot, it's a pretty obvious fold, imo.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 07:44 PM
I could go either way on the flop C bet. Since we are new to the table I would tend towards checking the flop until we get a better idea on player types but again I don't hate it. Once called and an A on the turn I give up.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 08:00 PM
Flop c-bet seems ok, I'd probably look disgusted and muck my hand on the turn. ****ing jacks.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 08:22 PM
Flop cbet is fine if u go smaller and wider. I like betting 20 there.

On the turn u gave a bunch of cool properties about ur hand… I agree with all of them. But I wanna bet the turn!
All the reasons u gave to call are great reasons to use this as a bluff imo
I wanna barrel turn and plan to blast on a brick river
What better bluffs do we have to fire on a brick river?
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperknit
Flop cbet is fine if u go smaller and wider. I like betting 20 there.

On the turn u gave a bunch of cool properties about ur hand… I agree with all of them. But I wanna bet the turn!
All the reasons u gave to call are great reasons to use this as a bluff imo
I wanna barrel turn and plan to blast on a brick river
What better bluffs do we have to fire on a brick river?
Punt imo. It’s ok to give up on a good board for our range but a terrible board for our actual hand.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-08-2023 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
Punt imo. It’s ok to give up on a good board for our range but a terrible board for our actual hand.


I disagree, I think we have a prime bluffing combo given our blocking properties
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-09-2023 , 12:49 AM
The problem is that if we only bluff the turn with clubs, then we won’t have any good bluff candidate on a brick river
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-09-2023 , 01:40 AM
Turn is a great spot to check raise. If it goes check check that’s fine, and we have great blockers to nutted hands and draws. There aren’t a lot of natural bluffs here and our line looks incredibly strong. Additionally we have all the big hands that they would’ve 3b pre
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-09-2023 , 10:05 AM
I disagree with some who say that it's a fold on the turn. Here are the reasons why:
The A on the turn brings in the front door straight. So now by betting the turn villain is saying that he has a straight or two pair. On the river when the Ac comes in and he's still firing now he is saying that he has flush but more likely full houses. With the Ac on the river it reduces the flush draws that he is calling with on the flop. I can only give him Qc9c and 8c9c. His boats are AT, A5, and 55. I am not including AK because he would of 3-bet me pre-flop. On the river, there are 6 combos of A5 and AT each and one combo of 55 and TT each. On the river, his story is that he has a full house and there aren't many full houses here.

His river bet size is a little over 2/3 pot. What besides boats and flushes are calling this bet on the river? The bet is intended to fold out JJ, QQ, and a weak A that bluffs the flop and goes runner-runner trips. Not even sure that a weak A folds on the river here.

This hand was very confusing for me on the river because I couldn't put the villain on many hands that play this way to get to the river. More importantly, I couldn't find any bluffs here. It would be crazy to turn 88, 99, etc... into a river bluff. The A on the turn and river is better for my range than his range. I have more AK, AQ, KK, and TT here.

Next time in a spot like this, I think I would like to test out betting the turn and firing the river on a river pairing A. I agree with some who say that because we block so many of the QJ combos I should not as be worried about the straight coming in (should have deduced this in-game) and fire the turn.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-09-2023 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Turn is a great spot to check raise. If it goes check check that’s fine, and we have great blockers to nutted hands and draws. There aren’t a lot of natural bluffs here and our line looks incredibly strong. Additionally we have all the big hands that they would’ve 3b pre
This
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-09-2023 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Turn is a great spot to check raise. If it goes check check that’s fine, and we have great blockers to nutted hands and draws. There aren’t a lot of natural bluffs here and our line looks incredibly strong. Additionally we have all the big hands that they would’ve 3b pre


I like this too
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-09-2023 , 08:42 PM
Check flop, AP check fold or check raise turn, just don't check call, hand is too weak. AP river is quite suspicious but villain credibly reps a few flushes, straights and boats. He should turn some pair into a bluff and I wouldn't trust unknown button flatter 2/5 villain to do that very often so I'm folding.
JJ in a tough spot Quote
01-10-2023 , 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crackedaa
Check flop, AP check fold or check raise turn, just don't check call, hand is too weak. AP river is quite suspicious but villain credibly reps a few flushes, straights and boats. He should turn some pair into a bluff and I wouldn't trust unknown button flatter 2/5 villain to do that very often so I'm folding.
Agreed. It’s a sus line with our blockers but I don’t think people double barrel against opener on a board like this as a bluff often enough. CR on the turn is sexy, I like it.
JJ in a tough spot Quote

      
m