I played this hand at 1/3 on the weekend and thought it was relatively simple, but some friends had very differing opinions, so I wanted to hear more thoughts.

There was an UTG straddle of $6. I am UTG+1 with JJ. I make it $25. Folded to the button who calls (never seen this guy in my life, but he’s an engineer, plays PLO, plays tourneys and just moved to Calgary that day). It’s then folded to the UTG straddler who now jams for $52 total. Button is the effective stack with about $350 left. Do I call, raise or jam, and why?

What's your stack?

I had around $420 ish

4bet does feel necessary, and the options I see are an amount like $120-130 or jamming it. I think either looks decently strong to begin with, but jamming looks weaker just because most people consider it unlikely to come from a super premium like KK+. I definitely choose to jam in a lot of situations like this.

Calling is only an option if you think V may re-isolate light. Otherwise you're just giving him an extremely cheap flop.

Raise to $200 and call off if button jams.

Make it 300, give him a chance to make a drastic flop mistake for 50 more.

Jam.

I would consider calling to be a big mistake. Your hand is almost always good but it needs protection. If you call BTN also calls 100% and then he never pays you off postflop, and you possibly pay him a bet if he hits his Q,K,A or set.

Raising to a smaller size is probably going to look even stronger than jamming from Villains perspective, and it would be unconventional given the effective stacks of $350.

Jam > raise $100-125 >>>>>> call

You don't want button sticking around, your hand is too fragile. There are a bunch of hands like AQ/KQ/KTs,T9s that might have called the $25 and then will call for $28 more in a big pot. These hands will give up or being making a -EV move when they commit themselves to the pot but are +EV if you let them see a cheap flop and then decide if they want to commit or not.
The choice between raise or shove is more up in the air. Any raise of $150 or more really works out about the same and the difference in EV will be small.

Make it $175 - $200. I kind of want him to come along, but fine if he folds, too.

Button never has you beat right now, there >50% chance the flop contains an overcard to your jack, just take the dead $$ in the pot and shove. If he wants to call then fine

This is exactly what I was thinking. After your call amount, there is $129 (minus rake) in the pot, say $125 for calculation purposes. Adding that to the raise, plus a bit for being OOP totals $175, or $150 more for the button to call. I'm totally OK with $200 too.

And yes, I find this rather straightforward.

I _really_ doubt this at 1-3. Maybe against the top 5% of players who also know you are the top 5% but even then meh.

If you make it 150 there's a slight chance they call with AK/AQ and fold if they don't hit a pair on the flop, should be significantly less chance for 200 though. Would much rather do this with AK/KK+ than JJ though.


Jam == $200 >>>> call.

Unless you make it 200 with JJ and fold without god like reads, then just Jam.

I agree that Jam==$200 from like a math/EV/logic standpoint. We can’t ever raise/fold a hand once we bet >1/2 our stack. We’re even committed with A5s. And we’ll be committed on every flop. So it’s purely logically equivalent.

I was thinking the raise to $200 looks stronger than the jam because it looks like it is inviting to a call. Like Javanewt even said that $200 is preferred because she wants the action. Well, it may look that way to an outsider as well…at least, that was my first impression. Do we want BTN to think he’s being enticed to call?

Probably a slim chance either way, but I would like it if BTN will call with his AK or TT, so I probably slightly prefer jam to $200. Not a huge deal either way, though.

Raising to $100/$125 seems legitimately different from jamming because it’s building a small side pot, we have more room to raise/fold etc (though I would never do that vs BTN with JJ). There’s a greater chance that Villain will peel a flop with a hand like AQ/88/etc for $100 (vs $200+) if he is in the mood to gamble.

Thinking further, I prefer the $175 bet as it leaves $150 to jam with OTF.

Agree with the room here, mandatory raise, and sizeable, but not jamming. $175-200 as everyone suggested. Leaves a little bit of FE for your obvious flop jam. If you get called and they bink so be it. They should be folding whiffed flops and you’re printing.

Agree with above. Raise to around $200. It's essentially a jam. But it might get him to come along or jam when he shouldn't.

We want hands like AQ and KQ to fold as opposed to seeing a flop and playing perfectly vs our exact hand.

We don't want them seeing the flop with less than proper odds. But we definitely don't care if they come along for 60% of their stack or shoving.

You're not really giving him less than proper odds If you make it $200 with plans to ship the remaining $150 on almost any flop, you're offering villain a great price on his call. If he's got a hand like AQ or AK then he'll make a pair on the flop 33% of the time and he's getting 275:175 which is pretty close to break even. Sure it's a small mistake but if your plan involves shoving most A, K, or Q high flops then he's getting a pretty solid price with the extra $150 of implied odds b/c he just folds when he misses.

The only way this hand really makes any money from a $200 raise is when villain reshoves over the top of you with a hand he would have folded to a shove that you also happen to be dominating. A hand like TT or AJ. I think that's just such a narrow range I'd rather just ship it in here b/c it makes our lives much easier. We have a strong but very vulnerable hand and there's already $102 in the pot, I wouldn't try to get too greedy here and just rip it in pre. I'm really not sure why everyone seems to like a $200 raise

Yes, my thinking is to be greedy. The short stack is only $52. I don't really care about that. I'm setting the price of $200 if the BU wants to gamble when I KNOW I have the best hand. Raising to $200 also has the added benefit of giving him a chance to spazz out with some lower PP. And if I do isolate the $52, I still might not win that. But I have a chance to win more against BU whose range is weaker than my JJ. I'm willing to offer the price instead of completely shut out.

Still unclear about the stack sizes…does V have $400 total to start? Or does he have $375?

Assuming V starts with $400 total, if Villain is the type to gambol preflop for $250 with AK/AQ, he is probably not going to fold any flops for his last $150 when he misses. He’ll be getting the right price to call with AK at least versus our range of TT+,AK on most flops.

If he never folds any flops, then $250 pre/$150 flop is about the same as $400 pre.

And we probably want the action from AK…it’s a 43:57 equity dog in the main. We lose some equity in the side if BTN comes along, but I think we’d prefer to take those odds for the main.

So all that is to say, if we think we can level V into playing his AK using the $250 flop/$150 line, whereas he’d fold the hand for $400, then it would be a preferred play IMO.

If we can level V into jamming over the top of our $250 preflop raise with 99/TT, whereas he’d otherwise fold if we jammed for $400, we are winning a lot with the $250 line.

I am not sure about the psychology of this spot, and how V will interpret a jam versus a raise to $250. That part is very
unclear to me. But IMO we want the action from AK/TT etc.

I am not sure about going to $200 total ($150 on top of the $50) with $200 behind…this might be losing? are we planning to check/fold A/K/Q-hi boards?

I think this is about right…and I think 60% is also about the right cutoff. If we raise to 50% of the villains stack, and he calls, we start running into problems postflop on A/K/Q-hi boards.

BU has $350~. Raising to $200 is near 60%. My plan for the flop is to c/c boards with a single overcard, c/f boards with 2 or more overcards. If any of these boards go check / check, I will most likely shove any turn. If board comes all low I will shove.

Jam 100%.

You are way ahead of button's range but he likely has plenty of equity vs you.

If you call, more likely than not, an overcard comes out on the flop, which is an overcard in his range. So you are likely in a position where you don't want to bet the flop. Not only can he be ahead of you on flop, he gets to see more cards that lead to more overcards, draws completing, etc. Also, if the poor comes ragged, he lilely has 9 combos of sets. In other words, you realize your equity poorly. Better to get him out of it with a hand like AQ.

The expected value for you of the smaller pot that happens when he folds is greater than the expected value of the larger pot when he overcalls you preflop.

Honestly I usually jam here with 88+, and most of my Ax. Sometimes I have even done Kx. Because the reality is that once you jam, it almost always goes headsup because once the button flats your initial range, his range is pretty capped and he rarely calls a jam. Now, sometimes I have seen someone in button's shoes overcall, so something like 88+ and AQ+ might be more reasonable.

If you were deeper, you could 4bet less than all in. No sense raising to $200 when SPR is going to be way less than 1. I know you want to win a big pot because you have a very premium hand, but you just have to push your equity and run with it. The reality is jacks aren't entitled to win a huge amount of the money on the table based on their preflop strength.

OP said BTN had $350 left in his stack, he already paid $25 so it has to be at least $375.


Some other posters like OD and JayKon were saying BTN had $350 or $325.

Hopefully, OP can clarify.

I kinda hate the idea of check/folding at 0.3 SPR in the main versus a guy who’s waiting in line for PLO lol…but it may be the right play.