1/2 nl game early sat morning....

Hero has been playing for 12 hours and is tired, but the game has two feeders that love to call off top pair hands. These two guys have seen every flop regardless of the preflop action (unless all in) for the past 5 hours.

One other reg at the table (V1) and we have history. He plays a loose aggresive game, but sometimes he gets really passive when deep. He just coolered one of the feeders with KK>88 on 8 9 10 flop....feeder called a $12 raise pre and shoved all in for ~$400 on the $20 c-bet. Q turn j river. Two hands later he stacks a solid reg (V2) with J10clubs on a Qclub 9club 8heart board. All in on the flop for a ~$450 pot and he was freerolling for a club and got it. Current stack size is ~$2000.

OTTH

V2 is in the sb and has an $80 stack, does not want to rebuy until he is on the button. Two black chips are in the cup holder and ready to go. He is down $800 currently and the two black will put him into the game for $1000. He is pretending to not be on tilt, or he is pretending to pretend to not be on tilt. As I said he is a solid TAG.

Hero is in the big blind and has $1800. Current image is ultra loose due to a preflop 3! with 24ss and flopping A35 to stack a guy with AK and a 62ss open in the cutoff and flopping a boat....table didn't get to see me have to fold AA and QQ earlier.....they only remember these showdowns and comment on them frequently.

Feeder 1 is in the straddle (UTG) and has a fresh $200 stack.

Feeder 2 is UTG + 1 and calls.

fold, fold and V1 makes it $12 and it folds back to the sb that pops it to $30.

Hero looks down at two red jacks. Now feeder 1 has yet to raise a straddle all night and looks like he is just going to call the $30. Feeder 2 is making the same motion and appears that he is just going to call as well. What is the better play? raise to iso V2? As said he looks to be just punting off this $80. If so then i would have to go to $115ish, but i felt like both feeders call and and then V1 will always call. JJ does not play very well postflop in a multiway bloated pot. I came close to raising to $200, but opted to just call instead with the intent to set mine. As expected everyone else just calls.

Flop $150 9 club 6 club 4 heart

As expected V2 pushes all in for $50 and we are faced with another decision. I think calling is the worst option here. I want to raise or fold. What raise amount is optimal? As i am raising to remove any draws, but i don't know if i can raise enough to get rid of some combos of hands. 99, 66, 44, qq, kk, aa. 78 club, 75club, 96, and 64 all call. It is possible that Axcc may even call/raise. Is it too nitty to fold? Is it optimal to fold pre?

Hero folds; racks up and watches the hand play out. Shakes head and goes home.

hard to read man use the card icons in your post

Your best play was racking up & going home. When we are that protective of our stack, we can't play poker anymore & the best option is to score a win for that day.

I don't see how anyone, other than the SB, could have QQ+.

I make it $80 even pre. Set mining against a decent LAG OOP sucks. You'll get a bet or maybe two out of him if you hit.

Meanwhile, 80 pre makes you look FOS but has a good chance of going 3 ways with V1 AI and V2 not having initiative. Might also go more ways with the fish, but that's OK, as your range still likely crushes them and any equity percentage you lose is way more than made up for by the extra money in the pot.

AP to flop, folding is atrocious here, and given V descriptions, raising just further bloats the pot and/or get rid of hands that don't really have any equity to speak of against you anyway. Also, the idea that you ever want to raise to "remove draws" is nonsense. You want to raise to charge draws too much if they call, but hope that they are dumb enough to call anyway. In this case though, I don't really see a raise helping much, so I call and see what develops.

Folding pre is also really bad. Really, I think you were way too deep to play optimally, were afraid of making a bad decision that would cost you your profits, and the best decision you made in this hand was racking up.

Honestly pre flop the only hands that are ahead of JJ is QQ, KK, and AA. since its only 3 hands that your really worried about and its only a small percent of the time the villain will have these hands I do believe its a shove all in and gamble it up...cant play scared poker...I mean if your scared just go to church lol..

lets say you flat like you did and yes you can make a decent argument to just flat with JJ lets go post flop

flop is 9club 6club 4heart

the only hands at this point that are ahead of JJ is sets like 999, 666 and 444. Also AA, KK and QQ

as you can see not that many hand combos that are ahead. Your ahead with JJ a lot of the Range and the flop is the best you could wish for except for hitting the J.

know your facing a donk bet and wanting to drive the other guys with possible draws out of the pot...best way is to just jam all in giving any one with draw incorrect math to call. this should let you isolate the donk bet.

if some one happens to have a flopped set then chalk it up to variance that's why we have a bankroll...no since in being that much of a nit.

could just bet the max for draws to call and hope to get value from missed draws..i mean most of the time those draws will miss its only some of the time it will come in.

in short I believe you should have just got all in pre flop with a hand as strong as JJ in a cash game.

also im new to this forum can some one tell me how to get the card icons ?

Not sure if serious. If so, not sure if you realize how deep we are. Why on earth would we ever shove $1800 effective into a $50 pot? What hands do we expect to get value from?

Again, why would we shove $1770 effe3ctive in to a $130 pot? We are never getting value from worse and just value cutting the hell out of ourselves in the rare cases the deep V has us beat. Also, we don't want draws to fold, we want them to overpay.

If you are serious with this advice, you need to spend some time in the beginner's forum, and if you're not, you need to realize that trolling strategy threads in LLSNL is ever allowed.

not trolling, I am new but have been studying and playing for a good min so not a novice. like you pointed out maybe I need to read a little closer. I did not see how deep the stacks was so that does change some things. thank you for pointing this out and I will do better to pay more attention when I read before I type away.

give me a min for a revised comment now considering the deep stack size

once it gets popped to $30 I for sure agree with the line of raising to Isolate with the pocket Jack's and I agree that flatting is a terrible idea.

I would typically go with a three bet so it would be $90.

the reason why I still would go with the raise is to at least see if the other would fold and if not then lets just see the flop

Flop comes $150 9 6 4

V goes all in for $50 and I do believe folding is a bad choice. its $50 into a pot of $150 and all your worried about is a flopped set or a over pair. I do believe a small amount of the time we lose and a larger amount of time we win this call.

Now the other guys that may be in on the draws **** I agree with the other guys comment that we should let them draw and hopefully brick it. I mean the majority of the time the flush or str8 will not get their enough times. So I believe this is a profitable play to value bet the draws all the way down to the river

Re-popping it pre to iso short stack. A min-click is enough to gii vs. V2 and fold if V1 comes over the top.

If you're folding on this flop I have no idea why you're even calling preflop.

Min raise to $50 so when v2 goes all-in for $80 it re-opens the door for you. This will actually make it less likely that you get further action, but if you do, you have multiple options once it gets back to you, and potentially a bunch of extra dead money in the pot and an uncapped range and control of the hand.

As played, I would just call the $50. Not sure what you are afraid of. Not like you are going to stack off for $1800 here with just JJ. Call the $50 and see what happens, play some poker. Nobody is going to spazzing into a dry side pot, so if you are beat, you will probably hear about it, and your hand still figures to be best, if you raise and get action, you are toast

"Hero has been playing for 12 hours and is tired, but the game has two feeders that love to call off top pair hands. These two guys have seen every flop regardless of the preflop action (unless all in) for the past 5 hours."

Fold, log a W in the books, and get some rest.

As played, call $50 expecting to check/call down if anyone joins the party. Your hand is too good to fold on the flop and your opponents are too loose to give them much credit. Scared money is best served in your pocket not on the table.

"Scared money is best served in your pocket not on the table"

I'm getting behind this program

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Raise >>> call
>>
>>
>>
Fold

We don't really need to raise it that much, 110-150 seems about right, only slightly bigger than what we might bet if checked to

This is the line i wanted to take pre. I felt that it provided me the most information for the least amount of money. It is difficult for the V1 to continue knowing that V2 was going to possibly gii. I just could not think clearly....