Hero (BB): 1600 Has a tag image, has been referred to by the asian reg as an "action player" but all I am doing is playing my regular tag game and opening up a bit in mp/lp to take advantage of some of the fit folds at the table. 0 showdowns but I have 3! the SB TAG asian villain 3 times from LP when he raised mp/lp and he has folded.

Asian TAG (1600) (SB) I have not played with him before but he seems like a solid tag. besides having the jimmy legs when he's in a big pot there is nothing else to really mention here. Raises ip often and cbets often. Recently lost a 2k pot where he went bet bet bet on a 3 flush board vs a passive stationy villain and villain min raised on the river and he begrudgingly folded. Does not appear to be tilted and is well composed.

White Guy (UTG) (TAG on the tighter side) (3000) Has been getting up a decent amount to make phone calls and isn't really involved in the game flow. Seems like a good tag but doesnt seem to be too active. Raised JTdd from mp once but besides that has only shown down winners and hasnt played many hands. Might just be card dead.

Asian Woman (4000) (MP) fitfold station, limps a decent amount, havent seen her have any showdowns, just a lot of limping, calling and folding.

Asian guy (4000) (MP +1) fitfold station, no showdowns, just a lot of limping calling and folding besides that hand where he called 3 streets on a 3 flush board vs the asian tag and minraised the river with the goods.

Older Asian guy LP (4000) Limps a decent amount, raises pre a decent amount, talks a lot about being crazy action but generally shows down winners in big pots. Does talk about doing crazy things but as far as I can tell he plays his equity almost always and is pretty straightforward. Will raise and gii with draws no matter how deep. He has squeezed before in lp when someone made it 35 got 2 callers, and then he raised to 165 and everyone folded.


UTG tag just got back to the table after making a phone call and raises UTG to 40 (std raise size), Asian woman calls, Asian guy calls, Older asian guy squeezes again but this time to 180, seemingly solid TAG asian in SB flats. Hero has JdJc and should?

(Besides my 3!'s and the squeeze by "self proclaimed crazy asian" there hasn't been any type of 3! dynamic)

Calling seems poopy. Wanted to raise here but was unsure about sizing. What does everyone think?

Been this spot twice recently, once I backraised with QQ and another jammed from the bb with QQ. What I thought was a squeeze was really a value raise with KK and AA.

Both times UTG raised 40 and multiple callers followed. Generally players aren't squeezing vs. UTG openers. Can't really set mine so I fold, sometimes call if we can go multi-way and pray for a jack.

that's a lot of asians. is the older crazy asian a doctor?

i would call here

I don't believe he is. He is a regular and at this casino every day.

What's your plan for calling? Pray for a T hi or worse board and c\r gii 3/4 ways?

c/f most flops. don't like a c/r gii against anyone but a fish or spewy type even on a ten high board.

So you're just set mining here?

people tend to play more straight forward in multiway pot. so you're going to win some when people check around the flop, but yes, you want to hit a set here.

I think calling here is bad.

I felt the same way, idk about bad, but initially I thought that raising would be better than calling though.

i think Raise/Fold is better than calling and folding most flops.

I'm just folding preflop, our hand just isn't strong enough and we are unlikely to have odds just to set mine. With a hand like AQ, KQ that has better blockers + we can't flat I don't mind a cold 4bet bluff, but JJ is just poop vs any reasonable range here, even if villain is squeezing wide.

shoving seems fine with 450$ in the middle and 160bb stack.

call

fold pre

What other hands are you flatting with here?

OOP against a guy we read as relatively solid, with like 4 people behind, I don't really see how we're making any money getting involved here.

On the button it's a relatively easy flat, with plans to play JJ for showdown value most of the time.

vs the PFR and 3bettor alone I probably GII.

In this spot though, I'm not going broke with JJ on the blinds. My position sucks and my relative position sucks even more. I'm just tossing it.

Generally speaking, I think both calling and shipping can be profitable, with calling being preferable with a boatload of rec players left to act. Set mining alone is practically breakeven, so any other sources of profitability will nudge it into +EV.

From an RPS perspective, I just have a terrible feeling about the old asian guy who's advertising action and is now making his second squeeze play. Between that and the distracted/tight UTG opener, I just feel like we're often going to run into the top of people's ranges.

^ vs standard online or good player 3b ranges sure but vs live asian dude ranges no

Going with Rakes/Aleksei. Flat and set-mine. Odds are looking to be good; pair is premium enough to get that elusive set/set auto-stack cooler on.
Fold isn't the craziest. 4B seems kinda nuts.
Crazy players get big preflop hands, too. And multiple people at this table could have the goodies, judging by the action (can't even totally discount KK or AA sleeping in a back-caller's hand, like the nitty lady).

And while I agree to lots of people that this should, kinda, turn your hand face up to a thinking player (the **** list of hands do you flat in the blinds after this action?--I'd personally just toss an AQo here and not think twice)... its lollivepokerz with lots of villains who look like they'd love to double you if you hit a set when they've got less. Aka its a solid spot for exploitative range play

Flat>Fold>>>>>>>>>>>>>4Bet

How do we come to the conclusion that set mining is break even?

Obviously it's a guesstimation, but we're paying 170 with a stack of 1600, we'll rarely get set-over-setted with JJ, the SPR is already nearing 2:1 so stacks will get in often, more players are likely to come in behind with it already being 3-way and LPs have a fondness for being "priced in"; subtract all that from the tax we'll have to pay when UTG ships QQ+/AK so we pay without seeing a flop, and I think we're in the negatives, but only for a small fraction of the pot that is easily made up for by winning unimproved a couple of times per blue moon.

The tightness of UTG is the biggest factor because the percentage of times he has a premium gets skimmed directly off our bottom line, and old asian guy can't have a range that totally crushes us or else we're almost never winning unimproved, and I don't feel good about either of those in this particular spot.

Alright just making sure that it is a pretTTy loose guesstimate. I didn't like calling because I felt like we didn't have the odds to set mine which is why I initially thought that raising>folding>calling.

just played this spot couple of times recently, I realize that once you called 180, Very Often u get an immediate 1:5 quite often (given their stacks and it is gonna go multi way)


so if all call express 1:5 let s say 50% of time (i put 50% because they all have 3/4k which makes it quite probable
if nobody calls u get 1:2.66 let s say 40% of time
if there is 4bet we are happy fold let s say 10% of time

that makes an immediate 1:3.56

so calling/folding is close because afterward we have 1420 left that s 7.8x180

so a total approx 1:11 if we can stack off without suckout- there are better spots for set minning.

correct but not amazing spot neither

call/fold>raise