results? Im super curious

i flat the 3 pre, cuz we have to fold to a 5b this deep sawwwwwy

AP i dunno, seems like one of those hands where you had to beder

I think he had AA

Well the spot sucks.

How does he have so much money it he's 'not really that good?'

Any way, if he had AK/AA why on earth would he shove? In fact, why would he open shove anything.

Probably a call against villain as described, but a hateful call at that.

Everyone keeps saying "why on earth would someone shove with AA/AK here". This is true, that play would not make sense.

Is this a level 0 thinking player? I've seen several times where a level 0, bad villain flops the nuts (nut straight, nut flush, or full house) and simply shoves the flop happily because their hand is awesome. They don't realize that the correct way to play is to slowplay something like that just a little bit because they're so far ahead already.

Villain had AK or AA. A 2NL player is not running a bluff of this magnitude unless we have a read that villain is spewy. I just can't see villain shoving QQ or JJ here unless he is actually much more of a thinking player than you've given him credit for.

Also, you said you had played with villain in that other hand. Did villain 3bet his QQ? What was bet sizing? Or did he flat?

this is a crap spot obv and I think this is such a read based spot its hard to give a good answer here.

but:

some are saying snap call why would villain do this with any A? well since you are snap calling KK then its prob not that bad of a move

OTOH is villain good enough to know that... dunno.

What do you make of his preflop 3bet size? which is pretty huge, is that standard for him or more indicative of AK(which is true of some) or like JJ-QQ etc.

grunch: I fold. Yea it's a gross spot but I think calling here is spew. When he shows some sick bluff, resist the urge to punch him in the face and instead say "yup, I was behind."

I'm on the fold side. Its a rare 1-2 villain that cold calls a four bet preflop and then bluffs all-in on this board. If Villian were willing to risk his stack holding a big pair I expect he would do it preflop.

Villain has an ace almost all the time, most often AK. Hero is toast and should fold.

DrStrange

*grunch* fold - no way you can make this call. i know what the voices in your head are saying "no way he hit 2 of his 3 outs on the flop! he wouldn't take this line with AQ, and surely he doesn't have AK as I have 2 blockers".

this is tough, but i think you really need to fold. bad beat. nh. move on to the next one.

you may not want to give the avg 1-2 player credit in this spot but you have to. if this villain is crazy/tricky enough to shove without an A in this spot, congratulate him on the fine play and reload ASAP.

*Grunch
Overbets or nonstandard plays should be big hands trying to get paid off. I would feel pretty lucky he forced me to fold.

Easy fold. You have to call $600 to win $1600. That means you have to be correct about 40% of the time. Without a direct read that this villain will bluff in this exact spot we have to revert to our default read of a 1/2 player. Does a typical 1/2 player donk ship 300bbs into an AAx flop in a 4 bet pot more than 40% of the time. The answer is no, they don't. Minus EV

Results? Even tho i think you lost the hand to AQs/AKs.

I don't think there is any doubt he called and lost ... I mean, the title is 'I'm meant to stack off here right?'

i folded...

then i think you made the right decision.

i don't. i did one of those 'i'll tell you mine if you tell me yours' after the hand. he claims he had AK. lol

Sommerset is making the most sense to me so far. I usually Grunch, but struggled with this spot. I started out thinking 50/50 fold call. You would think a guy might have more of a read here. I mean you did stack him twice, at the very least describe how u think he veiws you, crazy intranet playa, ect. If he thinks your crazy aggro, then he gets trappy, right? So I guess I'm a callin

I've seen the overshove with the nuts a few times over the years. The strangest one was a hand I played in Sydney where I flatted a cutoff raise on the button with TT. Flop AT5. Raised villain's c-bet on the flop, bet on an A turn and faced a shove of 1000 (almost 3x the pot) on a K river. Villain showed AK.

Villain here was probably telling the truth. People play weird.

I think his sizing should say something about hand strength here as well

Some people on the 1st page are saying villians range could be as wide as AJ+ or 99+. I disagree, 70 feels more like JJ, QQ,AK here.

Any thoughts?

Sweet. Tell dealer foul deck and nullify the hand

yeah, because the deck has two K's

yeah, im still puzzled about a range that flats a 4-bet OOP.

Didn't pay attention to the suits. Doesn't change my opinion. Villain likely had it.

You are not good here. If he is EVER doing this with a bluff he has to be successfull so much of the time that he is gonna stack to you anyhow. You can live with yourself with the fold for a reason. Had you called you would have been super monkey tilted.. Dont level yourself here like we have all done some many times and costed ourselves enormous losses, lol

I will admit that the size of the 3 bet screamed weak or he was playing weak. It is even more bizzare because it looks like he either wanted to scare you off or get you to re-raise him, but he did not fold to you or re-raise you. I do not know why an AA, Ax would flat a 4 bet.

The shove on the flop is made to look like a bluff (it made you think why the hell would he shove on a scary flop? He is trying to scare me off)), but it was probably not.