on further reflection, i do feel like it was perhaps a bit of an angle, but I think it's more taking advantage of OP being a doofus and listening to music and not paying attention while actively playing a hand so it's ok

the cost of being that anti social person who ruins the game just obviously there for the grind

Why? Verbal bets are binding. This situation described by OP wouldn't seem much different than someone declaring a bet amount and mistakenly putting out the wrong amount.

In my local card rooms, if there isn't an all-in button that the dealer will toss out, when someone declares all in, the dealers will tell them to push in one stack so the cameras above can see that a bet was made. It's routine for people to not push their whole stack in when there are multiple columns. People don't generally push their whole stack in unless they're short stacked and all their chips are in a single column.

I just got lambasted in another thread for misreading the board, falling under the heading of not paying close enough attention. Not paying attention to or not clarifying how much an opponent is betting likewise seems to be an unforced error.

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You're right that it's not much different than the bolded. But I would also tell people to try not to do that, and you even say "mistakenly". Errors can always happen, but there is no reason to do something confusing which is likely to cause errors.

You are also correct that some card rooms have bad rules, like you mention. Some places will allow you to toss just one chip "for the cameras", which, if allowed, is less bad, as your opponent is not likely to think you were betting just one chip. Even that is a stupid rule though. What good does it do for the cameras to see that some chips were moved if it doesn't prove how much was bet? I've never heard of cameras being used to prove that a bet was made either, have you?

And of course the OP should have been paying better attention; I said that in my first reply, and so did everyone else. But personally, I don't want to win someone's money because they misunderstood the action. Some may want to, and that is why it is an angle.

Again, I think some people here don't know what an angle is. They keep clarifying that what was done was within the rules. Well of course, an angle by definition is within the rules. If something is done, within the rules, to trick someone into misunderstanding the action, that is an angle. If something is done outside of the rules, it isn't called an angle, it's call "cheating".

The verbal allin should be more than enough, there is no need to push all your chips in unless you have like 5 chips left or something.

Pushing all our chips out just holds up the game when the dealer knocks all our stacks over as he's pushing the chips back towards us, and we spend the next five minutes re-stacking, people telling us the action is back on us, etc.

Nothing about what V did here would be seen as unusual in any of the rooms I've played in. Just gotta pay attention to the action and clarify the bet size before acting.

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doc, you're missing out on the fact that standard practice is sliding forward a single stack or a single chip

it's quite unusual to throw a specific amount that looks like a reasonable bet size

hence why I now agree he got angled, but am happy he was angled because it would have been avoided if he wasn't being antisocial and listening to music, those people suck the life out of the games and just suck

I see your point that V's specific technique for putting chips in can lead to confusion. To play Devil's advocate, suppose V's technique for all his bets was to stack chips and slide them in. Hero would end up in the same spot.

Maybe I'm biased because I'm all over the map when it comes to how I bet, so I just developed the habits of verbally declaring when I'm all in, and asking the dealer to clarify opponent's bets before I act.

I've been angled before, but not like this. Also just wondering what would have happened if hero had the best hand, and didn't realize V said all in. If V is angling, what's the second step in the plan, when hero shows up with the goods? What if V doesn't realize hero has his music muted, or hero stops to clarify the bet size?

Just doesn't seem like a smart angle, if that's what V was trying to do.

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Not an angle. I do this and I've never had someone misinterpret my action. Then again, no one listens to headphones at my casino. In my state, you can't just say "all-in". You're required to push something into the pot so the cameras can see. This can be one chip, one stack, or all your chips. No one ever pushes in all their chips.

Sometimes I put in one chip and while verbally stating "all-in". Sometimes I push in a whole stack. I don't think about it. The dealer throws the all-in button as soon as he hears all-in.

The bigger danger is the dealer not hearing "all-in" and you getting short-changed on a bet. I've seen that happen. Never seen OPs situation.

People play $1/2, $1/3 for entertainment. Take off the head phones and talk to people.

Feel free to stand by an incorrect statement. There's quite a few pros playing these stakes in Texas. The games play so big at most rooms, they don't have a bigger games spread.

While not my sole source of income (a single source of income is for suckers, regardless the profession), I make enough yearly at these games to easily support a single person's expenses. For 5 years now in Texas games.


These are literally just random examples of small stakes games in Texas.

T

LOL @ your ignorance. To be fair though, calling it 25bb/hr is semi-misleading. With the stack sizes and preflop sizings in most games.....it's much closer to 5/10 or 10/20. And no one would blink an eye at someone making 7.5bb or 2.5bb/hr at those stakes.

I actually build my strategy using 2/5 200bb or 5/10 100-200bb parameters for these games. As that accounts for the $15+ open sizings that is the norm.

If you're not making a minimum of $30/hr in Texas 1/3 (match stack or non cap) games, you need work. Which is why I stopped posting for a while and probably will do so again. Too many people like you who have no idea what's possible in these live games and want to flex on their keyboard when they can't make the same hourly, instead of learning how to achieve the same success.

Just went back and re-read the OP. I dunno, and don't want to throw shade at OP, but something in the way this hand is described doesn't smell right.

V 3B's pre, then bets less than 10% pot on the flop? Really? With AA on this board? Then hero check-raises with QQ, but slows down and checks turn? Again, really? Then V bets $75 into $540 on turn? WTF is that?And when V looks like he's betting just $100 into $740 on the river, hero beats him into the pot, no time spent thinking about folding or raising? None at all?

Does any of the post flop action comport with the pre-flop action, especially in In a wild Texas game where people are opening 13bb's?

It sort of sounds like hero was angling, suspicious he was beat, trying to see a cheap showdown by acting as if he didn't realize V said all in.

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There's probably a lot of nuance here. If it was mumbled so most of the table didn't hear the all in call then combined with random chips you might well feel aggrieved. If the rest of the table heard fine and your headphones let you down then that doesn't sound like cause for complaint. Verbal all in is pretty universal and as you can see from responses here, putting one chip/random chips/all chips all seem to be done in various places so I'm not sure you can assume it was an angle as frustrating as it may be.

Someone mentioned the recent "misreading the board" thread but IMHO there's a big difference between calling a big bet with QT on J8732 thinking you have the nut straight, and calling a bet with a bluffcatcher based on perceived sizing.

sick bruh, you played like 30 hours and recorded your vpip, that's awesome

Awesome, you make less than my cleaning lady. If that is a "pros" only source of income, they're a hospital trip away from being bankrupt.

dude he's solved live poker though and we're just ignorant

TTHRIC.