I'm 20 and I've been playing online since 2007 and until BF I was a profitable player, since BF I've only played a little bit on merge and that's about it

I turn 21 in January and then I plan on going to the new casino in Cleveland, OH to play 1/2 nlhe and since I've really only played online (sit&gos and mtts primarily) I'm wondering how I'll do playing live for literally the first time ever in a proper B&M setting

I've been thinking that I should just get the rhythm of live play 1st by playing safe abc poker, I'll want to focus at getting used to the basics like learning how & how much to tip, how to handle a chip-stack, table etiquette, making sure I don't unintentionally angle, slowroll or string bet, etc.....

I have 3 big concerns that I'd love some help on:

1) In addition to that I've read a lot on 1/2 in the strategy forums and I get the idea that since there are so many reckless people who are consistently loose & stupid that the only thing that makes since is to just be conservative until you're in a really good spot (basically abc poker being the best style for 1/2), is this how you should pretty much always play 1/2?

2) I'm afraid of the idea of walking into the poker room and sitting down and immediately being glared at by 8 other faces of people who are all above their 30's, with them giving me a hassle for being young if even only in a joking manner so, am i exaggerating with this?

3) My goal is simple really, I'm not trying to go pro within the next 2 years, so I'm not focused on moving up, more so I'll be focused on forming a good BR in 2013 and maybe play in a circuit/the actual wsop

I have no living expenses at all for the next two years (I'm a student and the next two years are being payed in full by the military so, any profit I make can stay in my BR and transportation is no big deal since I'm very close to Cleveland
anyway... how many buy ins should I have with me when I first play?

Thank You for reading, I tried to keep this as short as possible, any responses would be very much appreciated

if your playing 1-2 you might as well put your money on the table and go home

at least go to 2-3 or your ganna be having a joke hour losing to hands like 4,7

and always bring 2-3x the buyin for a few rebuys for situations where you got unlucky

Welcome to LLSNL.

The first thing is that if you are primarily a SNG and MTT player, it would be tremendously helpful to you to start playing cash online first. The biggest thing is to realize that TP is not a hand you're happy to stack off with in cash most of the time.

Next, read through these two threads.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...e-play-600893/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...quette-606094/

To answer your specific concerns,

1. I'd buy in with maybe 40-50BB to start. You'll be more comfortable playing in that zone coming from the tournament world. Conservative would make sense with this stack size.

2. Most poker players are friendly at the table. It is unlikely you'll have a problem. I'd avoid pulling up your hoodie, sticking in your ear buds and wearing sun glasses. You'll want to talk and see people.

3. Forming a good BR is difficult, but not impossible at 1/2.

does this implement that the lowest level with the worst players is much harder to beat than the higher levels?

anyway, if u are a bit uncomfortable at the beginning, especially concerning matters and how to behave, maybe make a list.

1. find a posture when in a hand and stay that way.
2. find a number to tip and find a potsize of when it is worth to tip (dont have to tip every small steal)
3. for your first time going there just take two or three buyins i recommend. u are an experienced poker player, arent you? you should know what a proper BRM is, and stick to your own guidelines.
4. if you dont want it you will not be angle shooting, and if its unintentionally, its not a big deal.
5. if you dont like it, quit and go home.

etc, just sit down and think of it yourself.
yes, play pretty much ABC.
if u are used to MTTs though, dont open for 3x or 2,5x in live low stakes no limit holdem, u will get a cascade of callers everytime. better be tight and open for 5 to 6x, if there are limpers, even more. doesnt look like a good technical strategy, but it really is better than staying to your usual size of 3x in these games.

you can play all the solid abc poker you want

but you will be at the lowest level full of degens and such who will call any raise hit every 1 outter imaginable etc..

not real poker and i dont know how much the rake is over there but you have to consider that as well depending on your table theyll be some jokes some cool people some tools etc.

dont order the food and slowroll string bet all you want everybody does it and the floor wont do anything about it

they might call with every draw, but they wont hit any draw...

Obvious level is obvious...

Just go and play... you will get the hang of it quickly enough. For tipping at this level $1 on every "big" hand you win is normal & no, you don't have to tip every single pot you win. A reasonable rule is that if you raise and take it down with a cbet on the flop you don't have to tip but if multiple bets go in post-flop you can tip.

Handling a chip-stack is easy. In a 1/2 game there are really only $1 and $5 chips. Make stacks of 20 chips (which will be $100). NO they won't fall. Making stacks of 10 is fine, but more newbie.

To avoid string betting either i) announce your bets or ii) place THE ENTIRE bet past the line at once.


yeah. no one at the table is thinking about anything but their own cards. simply open raise value hands. post-flop, there is like one rule, and that is BET FOR VALUE, FOLD WHEN FISH RAISE. thats all you need to know. Don't run big bluffs and sure as hell don't try to "rep" anything, and NEVER EVER try to get them to fold top pair.


might happen, not at 1/2. I'm 23 and right now I play 5/10 & 10/20 live. I've had to deal with that stuff a bit. Some older guys will try to push you off hands cuz they want to assert their authority or think you might be scared money. Some guys give you shyt. It shouldn't really happen as much at the lower limits since there are tons of 20-somethings playing 1/2.


I dunno, depends on your roll. $500-1k I'd say.

The age of poker players varies a lot from players in their 20s (18 at my casino) to 70s. Some of the players at 1/2 are degen a-holes but don't let it get to you.

Since you are young, players are going to have preconceived notions about how you play (ie a loose internet kid). Since you are just starting, I recommend playing a very tight range and doing so from primarily in position. This is the easiest way to win at this level and will lower your variance. Also, keep your bluffs to a minimum. Many of these players don't have a fold button. Once you learn the game better and have better reads then you can open your game up, but for now you should play pretty straightforward.

Also, I recommend always getting a seat change button, observing the play of the players at the table and changing seats accordingly to ensure the loose calling stations are always on your right.

my advice would be to get ready for a slower pace when playing live. You might get 20-30 hands per hour and the biggest obstacle is to be patient.

Also you need to put in the hours and build bankroll. Set aside your profits and build your bankroll. Since you're not paying rent and other bills, then you should be able to grind out a decent bankroll over time.

i wouldn't worry about how loose the players are when playing live because there's no real difference between live and online players when it comes to fish/donks.

Be ready to log in 10 hours every session. If this is your job then you have to put in the time and be consistent.

Bart Hanson says (and I agree with wholeheartedly after about 1,000 hrs of live play. I turned 21 last august) live LLSNL poker is 95% value betting, 5% bluffing/hero calls.

Value bet incredibly wide.

Completely disagree with buying in for 50bb, if your coming from online tournaments you should still be able to sit 100+bb deep and play better then your opponents. Assuming you have the BR behind it. Buying in for 50bb in the slow paced live game will kill your hourly.

Old nits don't bluff or 3bet light.

I have a thread I keep in Goals and Challenges that details my progress from online > live in pretty good detail and I talk about how I first handled the questions your asking.

Live is easy. Just be patient.

Agree with above post. The key to maximizing profits is knowing when and how much to bet for value.

This is a tricky concept because it takes hours and hours of play to even understand the subtleties of making value bets that really takes advantage of the slightest of edges.

Good luck with your transition. I am in almost the exact same position as you and was about to post this exact thread, thanks for the replies everyone.

Get ready to fold for an hour.

Seriously, when I started playing live (and this was a problem for many people I'm sure), I started to feel card dead pretty easily, got impatient and started loosening up (and spewed ofc)

Don't be one of those dorks with the sunglasses and headphones. If you don't have cards you should still be watching the hand for information.

I think the benefit of position is magnified live over online. My live opening ranges are looser than online IP and tighter OOP. Opening trouble hands in late position is usually a good idea because people will call OOP much lighter (keyword: opening. 3betting a UTG pfr with KT is still terrible).

I was playing online mtts for a living and now play live 1/2nl to pay the bills. The game is much like lower stakes mtts pre bf during the first couple of levels minus as much stacking off deep on the flop with less than 2 pair. Most ppl don't float or value bet thin enough. It can be slow and tedious at times, but for the most part it's very easy money.. Maybe on your first visit buy in for 50 bbs, I bet after 30 minutes you'll be salivating and buy in for the rest.

it's a different world. sometimes you'll have great days, other days... be prepared to watch the biggest moron in the world walk away with 7 buyins while you got dealt 92o for 6 hours

Yes, this is all true. For the most part, most of poker at any level is ABC. It may not look that way on TV or YouTube since they focus on unusual situations for the entertainment value. Otherwise, it would be like watching paint dry.

Most of the players you see at 1/2 are recreational players who come, hope to get lucky, but are willing to chalk up their losses as the cost of entertainment, and an evening of socializing. Basic, ABC play will get the money without having to resort to "fancy" plays. Don't worry about getting "fancy" against players who won't appreciate it anyway. Don't get into the habit of making Level 3 plays against players who aren't making more than a token effort at Level 2 thinking. In other words, don't out smart yourself.

Since you are transitioning from on-line to live play, the biggest difference is that you will have the chance to observe your opponents in ways that the on-line game does not permit. This is what you should practice: getting a line on your opponents. Don't try to do everything at once while you are still learning: focus on one player at first. Then two, and it will become automatic before you know it.

Yes, most of your 1/2 live NL players fit your description, but watch out. Not all of them do, and you will run into some savvy players occasionally. Helps to ID them ASAP, and to stay the hell out of their way. They will do the same for you.

"I'll want to focus at getting used to the basics like learning how & how much to tip, how to handle a chip-stack, table etiquette, making sure I don't unintentionally angle, slowroll or string bet, etc....."

So far as tipping is concerned: as little as possible, and as infrequently as possible. You're already battling against a rake, you don't need to tax yourself any extra. What I've found most helpful is to not tip until the dealer rotation. As your dealer is getting ready to leave, tip him a buck or three. The new dealer who's just sitting down will see this, and figure you're a good tipper.

As far as chips, keep your stacks clean, and easily visible to the other players. You can avoid the other mistakes by taking your time. You don't have to act instantly. Take the time to count out the amount you intend to bet, raise, or call. Make certain that if you throw in a larger denomination chip, and you intend to raise, announce that you're raising before the chip goes in the center. Otherwise, it will be assumed to be a call only. If you meant to call, say "Call", otherwise, throwing in some red birds, only to discover there's a green chip in there will be taken as a raise. As a newbie, mistakes are going to happen. Don't worry about it, just learn and don't do it again and most players won't think you're shooting angles.

You are probably exaggerating. What I would suggest is visiting the podium, and asking for a copy of the house rules, if these aren't sitting out free for the taking.

Next, don't just jump right into a game. Spend some time on the rail and observe. See how the other, more experienced, players are doing things. This will give you a good idea of how to act at the table. Don't worry if eight other faces glare at you. It's inevitable, you're a new, unfamiliar face, an interloper. It will take some time until you become a "regular".

Don't worry if they make assumptions based on your appearance. If they do, it's to your advantage. Figure out what those assumptions are, and exploit the resulting mistakes.

Good plan, be sure you stick with it. I have seen more young players (and some not so young players) destroy BRs, not because of what they did at the table, but because of what they did away from it. Don't rush right out and buy that new car because you've had a good run. Good runs always end, and you will need the extra to withstand the variance.

Before you hit that circuit or the WSOP, take your time. There's no rush.

Hideous advice. To be sure, it will happen: you're in there against some yutz, get it in good, only to discover he coolered you with some incomprehensible play. SUX, I know. However, if they're playing stuff like 47-off without regard to position, SPR, and ROI, they're making extremely negative EV plays. You'll get any money you lose to a cooler back with interest. These are the kinds of opponents you want to play against. There's a lot of money to be made at 1/2. Just take your time, and let that variance work in your long term favour.

I would def buy in for like a hundred initially until you feel comfortable at the table. Watch other players, be respectful and strike up conversations to make the time go by.
How much you bring depends upon the distance you are traveling and what you can afford to lose. If you play tight and confident you will do well.
Good luck!

Anytime you try something for the first time it is a bit nerve wracking but try not to over worry or think.

Rarely will you get people being rude, if some rule nit calls you out on a string bet or similar just listen to the dealer/floor and implement what they say in the future. All staff adn players are used to beginners being in the game and almost all are sympathetic and helpful.

Sitting with 50BB is fine. Play tight preflop and raise premiums big pre flop. Bet big for value when you flop Top Pair+.

EZ game.

^ welcome back quesuerte!

wow, Thank you all for the advice, a lot of solid posts that helped

thanks for the threads and I was profitable at online cash and because I certainly recognize the crossovers between online 1/2 and live 1/2, I'll be playing a lot of cash on merge until my b-day, I'll just have to resist the urge to simply play s&gos instead of cash game

good idea

I've experienced that feeling lol, but it's all variance

some very good advice on tipping thx a lot

never really thought about that as an online player so, I'll have to learn this defiantly, ty

will read your thread

this isn't me at all, I'm prolly not going to be that talkative but I'm not going to dress up in a wsop suit of armor, good advice

lol, that's a good way of thinking about it

great tips, thank you

I will defiantly keep reading and posting on threads of hand analysis's that people post here

amazing advice as always

just relax and enjoy yourself. Live is the way to go and it wont take you long to get the hang of it.

You should plan on not being all that profitable your first year and you should probably lose any expectation of making the WSOP the year you start playing poker.

The good news is that you have the fundamentals, concepts, and theories down

The bad news is that its going to take you a few hundred hours to properly acclimate to "live play".

"If" you can adjust to live play, you can crush the game. Unfortunately, most online players can't adjust to the live game. The pace and the fact that they try to force the live game into thier online paradigms and that just isn't gonna work at 1/2nl and 2/5nl.

I know a lot of us "talk the talk" about "adjusting" but the reality is that most players don't really adjust, especially online players. Despite reading up on live play, they often fall back to their online games which just doesn't work live...

My favorite joke is "What does an online player say before he goes broke at the live game?"

Answer: "I decided to rep..."

yeah, good luck with "repping" a hand when you're up against a Level 0 drooler....

anyways, good luck, read up on the bazillion "how do I beat LLSNL" and "Live vs online" threads

Grunch; I'll give my input as I'm the youngest reg at my casino.
Answers in bold.


There really are no "live tells" so don't try to do any soul reading. Pay attention to villain bet sizing, it's what gives away the most information.

good advice but, what do you mean that there aren't any live tells, I've always read that most of your opponents at live play don't know how to look for certain things and you're really going to be the only one at the table who's able to decipher basic tells?

although i completely understand that you can't read donkeys if that's what you mean