Adjusting to Live Play

I'm gonna break this down into a few parts that hopefully can help the transition from online play to live play go much smoother. In the end, you are playing the same game whether on the internet or in a live game, but there are important differences to note that can make you more profitable in both areas.

Note: there's no real "poker content" in the general sense of the word in this COTW. This is more about being prepared and what to expect when you jump off the internet and into the live ring.

Part 1: What/Where to Play Live
Part 2: Live vs. Online
Part 3: Image is Everything
Part 4: Pictures of DEEEEEP Stacks from Live Games (b/c I like to brag)

Part 1: What to Play Live
Ok, so you've rolled up the stake, and have headed to Vegas (or AC, or some casino in a place outside of the US which I know nothing about, or some crazy underground game with drugs, strippers, etc.) You're a solid winner at 25nl or 50nl on the internet, you've heard how ridiculously soft the 200nl games are around town, and you're ready to take a shot.

The first important decision you'll have to make is where you want to play. If you are in Vegas/AC or some other casino area, stick to the large casinos. All of my experience in this area comes from Vegas, so I would say stick to the Venetian, Bellagio, Hard Rock (for a fun Tuesday game). Larger casinos mean more guests, more traffic, MORE FISH. It's like choosing between playing on Poker Stars or some trashy site with 2,000 players at peak hours. Game selection with be better at the bigger casinos.

Also, don't think that large casino cities are your only option for playing. If you are willing to put your moral compass aside for a second, then find an underground game in your area. This is a bit easier said than done however. Unless you have a contact who already plays the game, finding these games will be near impossible (there's a reason for this, as the person running the game obviously does not want it to be public knowledge). Find someone on 2p2 from your area, or check the B&M sections to maybe get a contact who can get you into a game like this. These games are how I built my bankroll; the play will be similar to a 5nl table, even if the stakes of the game do not dictate that. There are also some considerations you want to take into account that wouldn't be necessary in Vegas, but that's another story, so PM me if you have questions.

Now that you've found a game, or are in Vegas, what stakes do you want to play? I see a lot of posts here asking "What live stakes are the equivalent of 10nl, 25nl, 50nl, 100nl, 200nl?". The correct answer is, "there is no answer." Sure, the higher you play live, the better the competition will be, but trying to match up levels serves no purpose. I like to look at it slightly differently. The list below shows what stakes you should play if you are a winning reg at the corresponding online stake.

online stake ---> live stake
10nl - 50nl ---> 200nl (possibly 500nl if the lineup looks good)
100nl ----> 500nl (you should also be profitable in 1knl games but these tend to play uncapped or deep)
200nl+ ---> 500nl -1knl (possibly 5knl if it's mostly live players)

The problem a lot of low stakes online guys will have when they try playing live is due to the vast difference in stakes. A winning 10nl player is theoretically hugely +EV in a 1/2 game on a Friday night at Venetian. However, can he handle playing with 200, 300, 500, 1,000 dollars in front of him, when a big pot online will only reach $20.

Play within your roll. Play a game that you are comfortable in. Play solid. Profit.

Part 2: Live vs. Online

1. You can only play 1 table. This is your biggest difference. It's very easy to play a solid TAG game online when at 12 tables, and your next premium hand is only 10-20 hands in the future. It's really easy to dump T8o from MP online as we know it's not going to profitable to play. This is a different story in the live arena. Simply put, you are going to be bored out of your ****ing mind if you play 12/10. And bored leads to tilt/spew.

. I recommend 2 things to solve this problem, and the choice is yours.

1) Bring headphones and a book and play 12/10. Sure, it's profitable, and you'll grind a steady profit, but you could be doing this from the comfort of your home for the same hourly (minus the cocktail waitresses).

2) Get in there and mix it up a bit. I would say that I play somewhere in the neighborhood of 35/20 or so in a typical 500nl game. Limping early isn't terrible at passive tables, as people will rarely be iso'ing you, and multiway pots with even unsuited connectors can win big pots as recreational players have no concept of SPR and stackoff ranges. Be careful to remember though, that while we playing more pots, we still want to have the goods when we get a lot of money in. Don't assume that because you're playing so many pots, the live fish will start stacking middle pair to you (trust me, it doesn't work this way).

2. No HUD, no reads. Unless you are playing an underground game that is your regular game, you'll likely sit down to 8 fresh faces when you begin. From the getgo, take note of who's doing what. Where's your limp/call fit or fold on the flop guy. Where's your nit. Where's you aggro asian. Find them and classify them as soon as possible. 1 or 2 rounds should be enough to have a good idea of who your mark is at the table. Keep in mind that players can change gears, but they will rarely go from playing bad to playing good just like that.

3. You could be up against very good players. Most SSNL, MSNL, and good tournament guys will end up playing 500nl or 1knl live, unless they are rolled higher. Remember that they are playing the same game as you, and just because they beat a big game then you online doesn't mean they can see your cards. I'm never one to strike up a conversation at the table, but if the topic of online play comes up, it's probably a good idea to find out who your fellow internet players are, and treat them accordingly.

4. Be prepared for larger swings. Because you are playing less hands, at higher stakes than you are used to, the variance will be higher even if the quality of play surrounding you is worse. Because of this, you should probably implement a 2 or 3 buy in stop loss when playing live at stakes well above your normal game.

Part 3: Image is Everything

In my opinion, this is where u make your money in live poker. Developing an image and exploiting that image leads to $$$, simple as that. There are once again, 2 ways to go about this.

1) Get a nitty image. Play tight for an hour or 2 at a live game, and you'll be hearing from someone at the table about how you are a big nit, "what are you waiting for kid, aces???". This is good because when you do get a big hand, people will try and crack the nit. You can make good money waiting for premium pairs and AQ+, but as I said earlier this is boring. The good thing about a nitty image is it allows you to run some bluffs later on.

2) Get a laggy, even crazy image. Here is where u make your money. Get people to think that you bluff alot, or will call down light, or do anything that goes against their idea of "good poker", and they will just start handing money to you. The trick is, implant that image in their heads, and then switch it up, fall back to a TAG or sLAG game. There's no better feeling than picking up AA live when the table thinks u are a maniac.

Something else I like to do in the live setting that helps my bottom line is being friendly to your fellow players. First off, no one likes an ******* at the table, and if you are the table *******, it'll likely lead to tough spots caused solely by your image. Also, live players will sometimes be friendly to you with regards to $$$ when involved in a pot. This can mean checking a hand to you that they clearly should have value bet, b/c they believe you've established a great friendship, and this is the correct thing to do. I said be friendly, just don't be friendly when you are actually competing for money in the pot. Chat it up between hands, when u aren't involved in hands, but when you get in a pot with your new "friend" take his $$$.


Summary of the big points from the sections with actual content:
- Find a game that you are comfortable in, wherever that may be
- Play at larger rooms in casino areas, avoid rooms with poor table selection
- Live players suck, so don't be surprised when your 1/2 or 2/5 table is full of droolers
- Be prepared for larger swings. Use a stop loss
- Find a way to not get bored. I suggest playing a much LAGgier game than you are used to online, or drink heavily
- As soon as you are seated, begin to develop reads on your opponents. Try to develop specific player types and place the other players into these categories
- Create an image in other players minds, then use that image to get paid
- Be friendly when not involved in pots, and ruthless when in pots

Part 4: Big Stacks

Follow my wisdow, and this can one day be you.









also, u get to meet legends when u play live...

First. Will read it in a bit.

nice read.
Like to add this to the image thing. Don't talk strategy at the table.
Also, most people remember what they see. If you fold 30 hands in a row, then show a bluff on the turn, they will remember you as "The guy who bluffed with 97 on a Axxx board"

Agreed. Advertising is a lot more important live than online IMO. Whether you show the nuts, or a bluff it doesn't matter because you're in their head now. Just be prepared to have someone calling you down light if you show a bluff, and be more apt to bluff if you showdown the nuts. Unlike online you're, obviously, at only one table and might be there for 4+ with the same villains. Thus, any information they think they have on you (or misinformation ) they'll try and use against you. Just keep every hand you've played against each player in mind when reacting to their moves. Nothing feels better than getting someone to donk off their stack to you with a weak when you actually hold the nuts because you bluffed them out of a large pot 2 hrs earlier.

nice post, nice pics :-)
i think i'm right here with my question.
i have €3000 to play live, and have already played quite a bit.
the problem is, the smallest game in my local casino is nl400 with
€100min. there's another casino which offers nl200, but it's a poker only casino and
the games aren't near as soft as in the other one.
so here's the question:
should i
a) shortstack with 100€
b) stick to 20bi (buy in with 140 if i have 2800, 150 if 3000...)
c) play fullstacked/almost fullstacked (which would give me 7-8bi)

right now i'm one of the stupid mid-stackers, trying
to see a cheap flop and double up.
though i dont like it, it's working really good, the 3000€ are all live-winnings and
i'm running at maybe 8-10BB/100.

what do you guys think: a, b or c?

go with c for sure... unless you are experienced in playing a 50bb stack... i always want to be as deep as possible so it's expensive for people to make mistakes

My own thoughts. I play every now and then at the Harrahs in New Orleans. A lot of fish and a lot of bad players, but they aren't the same as the bad players at 2NL. Your problem at 2NL is that you have a lot of stations that will call you down with pocket 2s. At the casino, people fold much too easily. They are much easier to bluff. I had one hand where the flop came down with Kxx. I put in a big raise, and opponent folded to show me top two pair. Don't play fit-or-fold with these guys the way you might at 2NL. It's just not going to be profitable or at least not as profitable. You can get a lot of traction just bluffing your way through hands.

Preflop play is quite a bit looser at the casino than online. You'll frequently see six or seven people enter a flop. There's a lot of limping. Furthermore, you have to raise 10BB at a casino to get the respect that 3 or 4 BB would get online. It's hard to get people to fold preflop, but very easy to get them to do so online.

There's usually a big waitlist to get into a game, especially on weekends. 200NL is the most popular game and most of their tables are 200NL, but demand exceeds supply.

At the casino I play, there is no pot rake, the casino makes its money by charging $6 to each player every 1/2 hour. This is the same fee whether you are playing 200NL, 500NL, or 1000NL, so at the higher stakes, the time rake is almost negligible.

Speaking of Sklansky, he has a section in his book on playing against weak-tight players. Basically, it means you want to get into a lot of pots with these guys and exploit their tendency to fold. However, you want to be tight when going to showdown if they are resisting pressure. These guys aren't going to loosen their standards to adjust to you. Instead, they will wait until they flop the nuts. Furthermore, a $15 bet into a $15 pot is the same as betting $15 into a $150 pot. There's no difference to these guys.

If you're used to playing 20 tables with a computerized dealer, playing one table with a human dealer can be downright boring. People take longer to make decisions at the table, a human is a slower dealer and you're going to see fewer hands per hour than you would on a single table online. Make sure you play your game.

I'm not sure what you're playing, but I'm presuming that most of you aren't playing the Big Game at the Bellagio. If you're playing 200NL, you're playing against a bunch of people who have almost no idea what they are doing. Leave your hoodie and your sunglasses at home. People aren't looking for tells. They won't be able to pick up on any as long as you don't fist pump every time you hit a set. You just want to blend in as one guy who thinks poker might be fun to try and willing to waste a few hundred. Talk people up, smile, have a drink or two if it doesn't affect your play. Don't be serious and do NOT berate fish. Fish are there to have fun and to throw their money away. Most people who play at the casino are expecting to lose it all. Make the experience fun for them. Don't upset them before they blow their whole stack. And remember, the only reason you are winning is because you are on a hot streak. Not because you are exploiting their weaknesses, not because you are calculating your odds correctly or anything like that. You are just lucky. Also, feel free to show a hand or two. Your opponents will reciprocate on most occasions and the information is probably more valuable to you than it is to them. I typically don't show bluffs, though. If my strategy is to exploit their tendency to fold, I want to reinforce the idea that folding is the correct thing to do.

And have fun. You aren't grinding here. This is for a change of pace. Enjoy the colors and the lights. Check out the waitresses. Talk to the people at your table. Some of them will want to talk poker. Just don't betray that you're a lot more advanced than they are. If you're a TAG player, you're going to have a lot of down time. You need to find some way to be entertained.

ok, thx,
but where would stop playing 100bb?
it's my roll and the world isn't going down for me if i lose it all,
but i cant imagine it's a good idea to play with 400€ if i have let's
say 1000€ left due to some bad luck.
cause if i'd do that i could also go to the nl1k table and buy in 300bb deep^^

another thing is if you have a hand.bet. As someone once told me:
People, don't get up, get dress, drive to the casino, park the car, find the poker room (which is actually hard to do in a lot of casino's, usually its in the back next to the kitchen and the whore station), get there name on the list, get chips, sit down, get some cards, enter a pot.....all to fold bottom two pair..

You'd be surprised what people will fold. Remember, they buy in for like $200 and don't intend on spending any more money. They don't want to go bust within the first ten hands.

I love live poker and would play it at least twice a week if I had local casino or an in at a crazy Asian game. 200nl live is sooooo much more profitable for me than 25nl online, even though I get in a lot of hands. I don't think I've ever sat at a live 1/2 talbe (Vegas, NM/OK Indian Casino, etc) where I didn't feel like I had and edge over at least 3-4 players. OTOH, I have NEVER sat at a live table where I was the best. The key is to quickly spot the sharks, and play accordingly.

Oh, and nice stacks.

I don't know where you're playing, but this happens all the time. Value bet.

best way to beat live is never to play it loooooooool

best way to beat live... watch greg play live... do the opposite

Solid post.

I strongly suggest anyone interested in playing live to visit the B&M forum.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/brick-mortar/

There's an individual thread for many of the main casinos where you get a feel for how the games are handled in each location and give you an indication of what the better players are thinking.

I'm mention it again next week, but the very most important thing to do is PROTECT YOUR CARDS.

Protecting you cards means using a card protector and keeping them in view, but as far away from the dealer as possible. If you are in a hand, don't let the dealer (or anyone else) touch them until you fold or the dealer has pushed the pot to you. Otherwise, you're Charlton Heston and somebody is going to have to pry them from your stone cold hands.

Because yes, there are recent threads where dealers reached over and mucked a players hand after he went all-in on the turn (and then ruled that while the hand was mucked, the player's money had to stay in the pot). Or the thread where a player switch cards with a player he didn't like and the guy thought he had a set of 9s and ended up with 84o. Oh, and the dealer and floor laughed about it after when they found out.

Which brings up the other point. On-line, everyone except on UB works flawlessly in a hand, making the right plays. Live, there are continual mistakes. You have to speak up when you see a mistake immediately to get it corrected. Otherwise the floor can and will rule it is too late to correct. Note that according to room's rules, you're obligated to speak up, even if you aren't in the hand.

If you've never played live, pick up Mike Caro's "Book of Tells." You aren't going to pick up millions of dollars from tells, but it will tell you what things you are doing that will even tell the live fish what kind of hand you have.

Finally, it is 1/2, 2/5, 5/10 when you're at the tables. Saying 200nl marks you as an internet player, which has pluses and minuses. Better to have them think have no clue.

nicely laid out OP... and pics are always a CoTW bonus~!

i recall my first couple of forays into a casino setting, i was nervous as HELL!!! even though i used to play a ton of BJ and dice, the pokerz had me! the first time i caught AA in a 3/6 LHE game i about chit my pants trying to gather up 2-$5 and 2-$1 chips to make a raise LOL! it felt like 8 pairs of eyes were burning through me and EVERYONE including the cocktail waitress knew i had the ROCKETZ!!!!

I agree that a loose/spewey image is the most profitable, so here are some more specific tips on image management:


* "spew" a buyin early.

This is most effective when you know the table is going to be locked for several hours and isn't going to be a rotating cast of characters. Initially buyin for a halfstack or thereabouts. Sometime in the first few orbits when there is a PFR and 2 callers, go ahead and shove your "drawing"-type hand. Low- and mid-suited connectors, mid-pp, big aces, suited aces, 2 braodway. The more likely you can be non-dominated the better. With the money already in the pot, the EV of this is likely only to be negative 5-10bb, well worth it for the potential profit later. If you win, you have a full-stack for half price, if you lose, buy a full stack and capitalize....


* straddle, and encourage others too as well.

Yeah, its -EV. Technically. But you're the "thinking" player at the table, and your postflop edge should be enough to make it 0EV at worst. And anything 0EV you can do to improve your image, you do. This works in conjunction with the first tip, as straddling will often build a pot big enough to shove even unsuited connectors (and the like) for only a tiny -EV (with your short stack).

If a button straddle is allowed in the room, do it every single time. Its actually +EV, and still makes you look like a gambler.


* drink, and encourage others too as well

"We're all just here having a good time on Friday night! Partyyyy WOOOOOO! Oh, sorry, I have the set."

There's a number of ways to go about this. I have a particularly high tolerance to alcohol, so I just drink and let the empty beer bottles stack up next to my seat. In Vegas I order drinks 2 at a time and make a production out of it. In home games I bring a bottle of my "favorite" alcohol.

Now, since I am a bit of a lush and do actually enjoy poker, this has lead to some drunken tilt/spew in the past, a leak I am still struggling to patch completely. If you don't want to play drunk poker (a very reasonable position) you can still play the part to a certain extent. Order one drink and nurse it all night long. Buy drinks for other players. Heck, I even know one guy who would pull his cocktail waitress aside (away from the table) and give her $5 to bring him ice water every time he ordered "vodka rocks" and gave her $1 each time she brought it.


* you are a "gambler", not a "poker player"

This one takes make forms. Advertising, as notontilt pointed out. Showing your bluffs, turning up your 18 out combo draw when you lose a 300bb pot and saying "I missed the flush", etc. But also, table talk!

Talk sports at the table. Have a favorite team. Better yet, have money on them. Talk about big wins and losses on parlays at the horse track or Super Bowl bets. If you're in a casino, how pissed you are at losing at blackjack, or happy about winning at roulette, or whatever. And encourage other gambling and prop bets at the table.

The "hammer rule". Red-and-black flops. Side bets on if if "your card" comes up on the flop. Side bets on who's down cards make a better blackjack hand. Etc. These are almost all entirely 0EV, and like I said, anything that is 0EV and improves your image, you do.


Its OK to talk "cards", but don't talk strategy

Everyone there is a card payer, so its liable to come up, and so its OK to talk about poker and poker hands. But never talk good strategy at a poker table. Ever.

Things you can talk about include: asking about the bad beat jackpot and discussing how the table might hit it, leaving an unlucky seat for a lucky one, after a hand talking about the J4o you folded that would have made a boat, telling someone that if their draw would have come in they would have stacked you and they were just unlucky, etc, etc.


* make everyone comfortable at the table

Talk about their crap job, or their thankless kids, or their bad luck running into aces, or their golf handicap, or whatever they feel like talking about. If someone is getting harassed, defend them. Laugh when someone picks on you. Tell bad (but not insulting) jokes. Have a rotating supply of humorous anecdotes

I may not be very good at poker, including live poker, but I have a good track record of turning boring nitty tables into action tables. I take it on myself to help everyone have a good time, win or lose.

I just wish I had a bigger bankroll to play. I'm much too poor to withstand the swings.

Biggest bad beat story.

One person from early position raises to $10. Two people call. I call from the BB with KJs. Flop comes AQT rainbow. I do a mental fistpump and check. The flop seems to hit everyone. Original raiser bets like $20. Both people call. I raise to $40. All three people call. So pot is like $200 now. Turn comes 6 which completes the rainbow. Bad guy bets $75. I shove, he calls and turns over AQ.

River comes Q.

Also, make your standard raise coincident with the standard play on the table. I can always spot the people who are probably decent internet players. They are the ones that raise to $6 (on $200NL). The fish are the ones who raise to $10, $12, or $15. Raising to $6 is essentially limping at a casino.

Ahaha angle shooting with liquor I like it.

Don't forget to tip the dealer!

also watch people betting size post flop...most player don't think about number of players or pot size...

A $25 bet on the turn will almost always mean X..no matter if the pot was $25 or $100.

I wanna go play live now after reading this.

how much do you tip?

you don't need to tip a lot...but I think one should tip consistently. I usually Tip $1 every pot I drag, no matter if it was a $8 pot steal or if I stacked someone. If it was a particularly large pot (like $800+), or the dealer help me suck out, I may throw a $5 in there. Plus I tip 10% on Jackpot hands.

something my dealer friend told me... "if i made $1 a hand, i'd be rich"

If you always tip $1 on pots where u see a flop, no one will every say anything to you, and every dealer will thank you.

With that said... i usually tip $1 per $100 in the pot up to $5

Kurt: solid post, all of those things definitely get the you crazy/gambler/loose image which is what we're going for.

If you're TAGing it up, and everyone thinks you are a crazy maniac, it's like printing money

I tip $1 per pot every time. $2 for a big pot, over 200bb.

If there are extenuating circumstances, I will tip up to $5. (One time I had a dealer shut someone up who wasn't in the hand as he was telling the villain what he thought I had. He got $5 and a "thanks for keeping it one player to a hand" as I dragged the big pot). And an overall good dealer will get $1 at the conclusion of their down, as well.

Cliff's: $1/pot is fine.