Session at Oceans Eleven 2/3

Villian is an soild old man it seems like, he either has been picking up some monsters or pretty TAG. Seems to C-Bet often and I have seen him re pop it 2-3 times on the button so far.
Stacks
Hero: 300
Villian: 300ish


I been seated 45 min or so , played one hand where I had pocket 10s after 4 ppl limped, I raised and took it down.

When this hand comes up, I am in the SB with two red 10s. UTG has straddled to 6. Gets 2 callers and Villian on the button makes it 18

I think about it for a sec and re pop it to 50. All folds to him, he smooth calls.

Im not happy in this spot, I was hoping he was making a move.

Flop comes Qd 4c 5c

I bet and make it 55, he insta raises to 110. I think for about 1 min or so
I shove.
He tanks folds after 2 min
Claiming he thinks I have QQ.
Thoughts on how it played out? Or what you woulda done?

Don't like the raise pre. I dont' like playing bloated pots oop. Even if he's stealing then he folds a majority of the hands we're ahead of (He might fold AJ or AQ I guess).

Your cbet is tiny. I'm done with hand when he raises.

Why did you shove and what hands did you put him on? When you shove, do you think you are bluffing?

He's obviously isolating the fish... You.

If you both start the hand with $300 and there's a straddle effective stacks drop to 50xbb instead of 100xbb. That being said I like the 3b pre flop, however it's right on the edge. With 99 I'm just set mining...but with TT and JJ I'm def 3b and 3b rather large to reduce SPR so we can get money in on flop or turn.

Just note that taking a 3b pre line is forcing you to play for stacks....which is more than okay given effective stacks will be reduced to 50xbb.

Ya, but put yourself in Heros shoes. Obviously this old man is a good player and doesn't pick up monsters all the time, enough to checkraise all the time and cbet 100%. He's at a table full of fish. Hero could never raise a board like that in a million years without a monster, but given game dynamics OP doesn't know what he's doing, he's just comparing his 10's against oldmans range and saying F&&K IT! His 1010 was the best hand, got no value from anything. Not betting for value or as a bluff, just saying fk it!

Wat

Your preflop 3bet is too small, but aside from that Villain is clearly the best player at the table and by your own admission is probably playing a tight hand range. No need to play a big pot out of position against him with TT. Just fold pre. You did everything else wrong as well but it worked because Villain thought you were a decent player.

Haha, I think you are way off saying that folding pre is the right play versus a player who could be making a move on the button as in past hands. If it was KJ KQ QJ AJ etc I think we find a fold.

Not like I smooth called then shoved, I sold my story. I agree its 3 bet or fold though.
I sold the story and he open folded kings, save your trolling.

Results oriented...nice. Yes, if the flop has an Ace, Queen, or Ten in it you probably take it down. Otherwise, you get stacked. Nice hand. Well played.

Given the stack sizes, I don't like calling the BTN raise or reraising less than AI preflop, since you will be out of position against a good player without the odds to set mine (in the former situation) or in a bloated pot where any flopped Bdwy is a scare card (in the latter situation).

Consequently, if you don't want to fold your TT, I think the best option is to raise AI. If we assign the BTN a range of hands of like 99+,A8s+,KTs+,QJs,ATo+,KJo+ then you are a coin flip if he calls with all of them, although he will obviously call with hands which crush you (JJ+), but will fold many of the overcard hands that would be flipping against you. Although on the surface this doesn't sound like a good outcome, there are many more combinations of overcard hands he could have vs. larger PPs.

Given the overlay with the presumably dead money already in the pot and the fact that TT would be difficult to play out of position against this Villain, I really think that raising AI > folding > calling > raising to $50.

Ewwww....fold pre? That's ******ed. Your eff stacks are ~50xbb and you want to fold pre?

If you know the answers, why post this thread as a question?

Seriously not trolling here, but if you want real advise, check your ego and sensitivity at the door.

I probably just flat preflop. I'm basically setmining and hoping the straddler or a limper or two come along. If I am 3betting, I'm raising way more due to the dead money already in the pot and the fact that the original raise after a straddle and two callers is actually quite small (I would even consider an $18 raise small after 3 limpers in an unstraddled pot). I'd normally go about $80 here, but with these stacks I think I'd rather just go to $100 so that I have a PSB shove on the flop (*if* I'm 3betting, which I'm not).

ETA: Stacks ain't great for setmining, plus with old man's wide raising range he ain't paying off a lot of the time. But I'm hoping a call will create a 5way pot (and with a straddler and two other limpers already interested, and the raise being small, I think there's a good chance at that), so I'm not considering folding here.

As played, I'd probably bet slightly more on the flop, but whatever. We probably fold hands that have decent outs against us (such as AK) and could even get a better hand to fold (JJ) plus could just end this thing now.

I probably give up when minraised. Sounds like our shove actually got old guy to fold a better hand, which is usually hard to do.

GcluelessNLnoobG

New posters, that post stupid **** like this, are generally not well received.

sick bluff.

The fact that they are only 50bbs deep (based on straddle) makes this more likely to be a fold than a call unless you want to flat out of position vs the aggressor who is likely better than you, plays a tight hand range, and who has position with a hand that doesn't play all that great postflop.

As for raising, it just doesn't make much sense vs this particular villain's range especially when you consider the amount of money in the pot.

Yes. So set mining with 50xbb is a losing play. 3b big pf. Reduce SPR and deal with the fact that you're play is long term +ev winner.

No straddle we call pf and set mine due to more attractive stack sizes. The straddle and dead money make this a very important factor in our equation of what to do.

Well its fine to give advice and i can accept it. But idiots who talk **** over a keyboard and just troll need to check themselves. This site is less about poker and more about who can be the biggest d.ipsh.it.

Seems like, either...or: what I'm seeing here is a good deal of uncertainty about how this vill plays. Does he c-bet often or doesn't he? When he raises and reraises on the button, what does he show down?

Yeah, I bet you weren't. Nothing wrong with defending a blind against a steal attempt with pocket tens. However, he wasn't stealing here. There was a straddle on, and two callers before the action ever reached him. If he's still raising, he ain't stealin' here. Given the tendency of straddlers to call, call, call, the two limpers, he won't be putting $18 out there on a bluff.

This isn't a situation where the blinds are up, no straddle, and everyone folds to the button and he hits it. In that case, definitely raise his probable steal with tens.

"Thoughts on how it played out?" In a word: hideous. What I would have done is recognize I had the absolute worst position, the button likely isn't bluffing, and even if pocket tens is the best hand going right now, it plays very badly post. I would have folded and conceded the $2.00.

You got damned lucky. That's all.

This thread is awseome! OP comes in here to ask about a hand he butchered, gets good advice, instead of being thankful (on Thanksgiving) ...he calls everyone an "idiot" and says 2p2 is not about poker, lolz. We've got results oriented thinking, bluffing, old men r/fing overpairs....everything!

I can't believe an old man min raise folded for those odds either, crazy!

bypassing the profanity filter? Ban, imo.

I didnt call everyone an idiot. Please re read to see who Im talking about. By idiots I mean the people with no direct response yet say something stupid. Yeah I thought he was stealing and if a hand that is often best here pre I re poped it or folding. I re pop when he calls i know my hand is a bluff, but when he smooths what are we putting him on? After a 3 bet I gotta fire and do when i get raised im not good but ive been telling a story I turn my hand into a bluff and hope Im spielberg with it. You all make it act like i thought i was good.

wow he folded kings? congrats on the free money i suppose, you should have been stacked and will get stacked the vast majority of the time

calling the raise and set mining isn't a bad idea. while the idea of pushing back at him if he's trying to make a move does sound good, it'll often put you in ****ty situations like the one in this hand.

It is good that you understand this concept, as opposed to impulse and/or desperation bluffing. However, there is a time and place to tell a story, and times when you should not. The case in question is one of those times when you should not have done so.

There's a straddle on, you have two callers who have already paid twice the normal price to see a flop. You have a button raiser. In this case, you don't want to be telling any stories that aren't true. Most people who straddle are loathe to just concede their straddle without a fight. You have those callers behind who are probably stronger than normal since they're paying a higher price. Given this information, the button raiser, though he is in the steal position, he can't be stealing. He's taking too much of a chance that he will be called by one or more players behind him. He has to have solid value here to make that play.

That you were in the SB with pocket tens, a fold here is probably the best play you could make. The position is bad, and the pocket pair highly vulnerable, even if it's the best hand (it wasn't) pre. Calling to set mine is marginal here.

There is a time to Spielberg, and this wasn't it. You were forch not to be stacked here.

heres the question i like to ask ppl when they do stuff like this. so were you bluffing?