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How Bad Did I Play? How Bad Did I Play?

09-10-2010 , 02:42 PM
We were playing $1-$3 blind NLH with everyone having $400 stacks at the beginning of the hand. V1 and V2 are both very loose players with raising or calling a raise preflop. V1 raises to $15 and V2 calls. I have two red Aces with still the cutoff and button behind me and I raise to $45, only the villains call and comment, "oh he raised", recognizing a tight player. The flop A9s4d and V1 bets $8 with a comment, "lets see what happens", and V2 calls. I raise to $160 and both fold but V2 shows the 10 high flush draw and states that had I made it $100 or even $125 he was intent on playing. I know this was a large raise but I was wanting to be able to get my stack in on the turn but feel that I was overly cautious with a set of Aces and perhaps $100 on the flop was better. Could I get some advice for future play?
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09-10-2010 , 02:46 PM
Preflop raise needs to be higher.
Given the board texture, $160 is an insanely large bet. There is no (reasonable) straight draw, and the board is two flushed, but this isn't a significant number of outs (any spade except the 4, so 8). There's also little guarantee that there's even a flush draw out there.
Make it $80 on the flop.
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09-10-2010 , 02:54 PM
Pot = $135 on the flop

V1 bets $8 with a comment, "lets see what happens", and V2 calls.
LOL $8 bet into a $135 pot.

Pot is now $151.

I raise to $160 and both fold but V2 shows the 10 high flush draw

You should be raising here to get value from Villains but not blowing them out of the hand.
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09-10-2010 , 03:00 PM
Preflop's ok, I'd probably make it 60 but at least you didn't minraise. On the flop, I'd just ignore their $8 bets and just bet whatever your normal cbet would be here, 100-110 sounds about right. If you bet 100 and get one call they'll be 340 in the pot so you can still ship the turn if you want.
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09-10-2010 , 03:50 PM
He wasn't calling $100 or $125. If he didn't call $160, he probably wasn't calling more than $50ish.
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09-10-2010 , 03:58 PM
Math has to go out the window here for a second, it's obvious from the stupid $8 bet and the subsequent call that they both have dumb hands which can't call a large amount. (If they feel they are "trapping" with middle or bottom set the money is going in anyway). You have to make a bet here which can get called. You basically have the board crushed so make a bet that strings them along, nothing can call $160 except sets (again, this isn't relevant, money is going in anyway), so give them an opportunity to call with A6 or TT or whatever. If they have a flush draw, so be it, it will turn only 1 in 5 times anyway
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09-10-2010 , 04:46 PM
you have the nuts. consequently, this is absolutely a v-betting spot. if you're convinced they won't call more than 50, make it 50. if the flush fills you can control the pot size with position or consider folding depending on action on later streets. this is pretty much a perfect spot to flop
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09-10-2010 , 05:23 PM
so you have two LAGs in the pot donking on the flop and you turn your hand face up and say "your tricks don't work"??? if they're so laggy make a weak raise (try $45, fish always continue with the same bet amount) they may try to blow you off your hand with a raise and you're in great shape. Yeah they have a great price to draw to a flush but i feel it's the best way to get the money in.
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09-10-2010 , 10:44 PM
Instead of raising full pot on the flop, maybe only half - 3/4 pot? I know I enjoy letting the table know that I came with my big boy pants on and will make raises that are sensible in size compared to the pot. On the flip side, you have to be prepared to punish these weak bets with non-nut hands (or total air) later in the session.
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09-10-2010 , 11:29 PM
yea $160 is too big. probably $100 is about right. other than that you're fine. the guy is probably bull****ting you by saying he would call $100 not $160 anyways...
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09-11-2010 , 01:48 PM
No, 140-160 is fine. Preflop should be 55 at least, though.
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