Been at table for 3 orbits and opened 4 times and just took down the pot pre twice, once on flop and gave up once on flop. nothing special

i have no info on villian except that he straddles his button and cbet to take 1 pot down. i think he also plays the 10/25 game (not sure)

utg+1 limps
everyone folds
Co (hero 2k stack) riases to 50 with AQss
btn (villian 2.5k stack) flats
blinds fold
limper flats

pot ~ 150

flop = Ac 6c 9c

limper checks, hero check , btn bets 100, limper folds , i call


pot ~ 350
turn = 3s

hero donks 250, btn instaflats

pot ~ 850
river = 6s

Hero donks 500

I didn't cbet just cuz i didn't want to be blown off my hand by btn. Should i just be cbetting and firing on safe turns and rivers.

My main question is on the river. Can i get away with just betting 250 again. when i bet my original bet of 500 i felt like i was just valueowning myself. Am i maybe going for two much value here with this specific hand, what about if i had AJ or AK here? Should i just cbet the flop and not go for this nonstandard line?

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this is an uninteresting hand but i'm new to live games and i'm unsure of everything that i do.

why are you betting? flop is ok, I'd prefer a c-bet but c/c is fine sometimes. your cbet gets bluffraised much less often than you think, keeps nutted hands in your range, gets villains to fold out hands with good equity and makes the hand much easier to play in general. I have no idea wtf you're doing on turn and river tho. What are you trying to accomplish with your bets? I'd just c/f both streets

I think your line is just fine, and I might prefer it in a lot of cases. I'd certainly use it in this spot a good amount of the time. Particularly, I like that you donked turn after ch/c flop; I think that's essential, here.

Your river sizing is also just fine. It helps to somewhat polarize you, which means villain should call with anything that he can, for the most part.

I wouldn't mind betting the $250 again on the river in a few particular circumstances. One might be if you had c-bet flop and BTN flatted. If he again just peeled turn, you could expect him to end up with a lot of busted draws on river, or AX with a club (pretty much a busted draw). I'd bet that small to induce some bluff-raises from the right opponents, and some crying calls from the rest. The other case would be when I knew BTN to be a loose, fishy player. In that case, I'd c-bet flop against the more passive of those types of players, and check to the more aggressive. Regardless of the flop action, I would still like a turn lead and, then, in either case, I'd like the $250 river sizing for the same explanation as above (the aggros might bluff raise; the passives will call with anything).

AK & AJ I think I'd play pretty much exactly the same way. This is live pokers, there's no difference, most of the time.

I think the flop is good...obviously you need to be c-betting here a decent % of the time but against this type of villian on this board I like a c/c line for balance. Also I think the turn lead and sizing is good...most players don't really know how to react to the "stop and go" play so I wouldn't be too afraid of getting raised off the best hand.

The river I do think you have to go for value here, because he is just going to check down anything with showdown value and will probably even give up with his draws or pair+draw hands that didn't get there given your line. I am an advocate for a less than 1/2 pot size bet here...perhaps 300 or 350. Since you are clearly going for value here I assume you are prepared to call when he shoves?? I think a smaller bet here could accomplish 2 things: make it more likely to induce a bluff and make it more likely that he makes a crying call with his aj/a10 type hands. I don't see a good player calling $500 too often with worse here. I'm somewhat of a live noob too so take it for what it's worth

Varying your play is fine, but I'm not sure what the point of the river bet is. Value against what? He pretty much has to have exactly AJ to pay you off unless you had some crazy history. You end up with a somewhat f-ed up stop-go-stop line, but it's the best alternative once you get there. Give him a chance to bluff or save a bet if behind. I would c-bet flop almost all of the time but your line there is OK for kicks.

I like checking this flop hu and c-betting it multiway- multiway pots are protected pots with regards to bluffing...

If I took your flop line, I like your turn lead/sizing. I also understand the river lead based on villain's turn snap--> he appears to be bluff-catching. Bummer if you ran into AK.

some villians, esp those who play higher, are going to read a river bet in the $250 range as weakness and raise on principal. unless we are prepared to call a raise on the river, i think a $400-500 bet is better -- ie, we don't show so much weakness. or a check to let him spazz with a missed draw / worse show down hand (bluff-catcher turned into a bluff).

to me it seems like a strong part of his range is KcXx here (the turn instacall is so often a draw) and won't call any river bet, but might raise with the nut blocker and put hero in a tough spot.

People who play bigger usually don't instacall with draws anymore chili. I def agree with the blocker getting blown up though.

ok. i'll take your word for it. i still see it quite often at the 5/5 and 5/10nl levels though. what type of hands does a guy who plays 10/25nl insta-call with? maybe like AxJc / AxQc?

i think we can rule out sets and two pair type hands on the turn -- wouldn't he at least consider his options when facing a stop and go ? i think we do need to include the stone nuts in his range on the turn though, since maybe his insta-call was designed to have hero assign villian a drawing hand.

DGAF, I'm intrigued. I would not have thought this. What bluff does villain think he's catching and with what? Catching hero's random paint with a 9 or A-rag (or maybe TT)? Isn't that a really small portion of the possibilities (flushes, AK-AJ, a six) without a strong read?

i dont like ur turn and river line.

what are u trying to get value from? flushies arent getting bluffed here.

Line is very strange, I personally would rather bet flop and check turn just to make it look like you cbet/gave up. Then when you bet river you are almost never getting bluff raised and still winning a nice pot. The line you are taking imo is a lot stronger so you are less likely to get paid off on river and you are going to have less info if he does decide to raise the river. As played, if you are really scared about getting raised on river a blocker bet is fine. If you are new to this game I would suggest taking more of a standard line, once villians have an idea of how you play you can take this line to balance or whatever.

Villain's instacall on the turn is the key IMO. If he's clueless, he just has a draw like chili mentioned. If he's seasoned, he knows snapping with a draw is a costly tell and he's actually snapping with a bluffcatcher, hoping his quick call tells hero, "hey, I'm not folding, don't even try to bluff the river (please)." Also- and most importantly, if villain has a hand that is 2 pair+ and he isn't a scared out of his mind nit, he has to at least take a few seconds to at least consider raising op's turn lead on that board...

As profiled, villain has 1 pair on the turn a huge % of the time and we are doing great against that range on the river and should use our confusing line to go for value. If op ran into AK or something better that villain played freakishly, so be it. The line (especially the river bet) was solid based on probability and the info available. IMO.

You bet flop, c/c turn and lead river and don't think you will get bluff raised often? If villain is abc or a poor handreader I agree, but against a good handreader I dunno. I habitually pop river when I see this line as long as the river card doesn't change anything. If villain thinks you can have a wide range pre, I vote just bet, bet, c/c. If he thinks you are nitty pre I like the flop check.

I guess it is player dependant. This rarely happens in the games I play in as the fish don't know this play and the regs know I am a calling station. Plus they usually won't bet turn after I have checked since they will just want me to bluff river. Anyways I would hate to give a free card on a board as wet as that.

With this logic, wouldn't bet/call 250 be the best line here?
Do we plan on folding to a raise as bet, on either the turn or river? (we have about the 800th nuts, that has value, right?)

I'm not saying this just as devil's advocate--I'm dead serious. If we can somehow execute a bet/call river spot and not go bust with AQ on a gross board, it will 1) be highly profitable and 2) possibly be AWESOME for the game... Thats the kind of demoralizing play that can lead to insanity and tilt from a villain, even a good one.

flop & turn are fine.. even good

would be 'well played' if you c-called river... makes your turn lead look more bluffy and invites a ton of hands to either valuetown himself or bluff.

I think his line looks pretty bluffy as is. Plus your logic is poor. His turn bet looking bluffy is only valuable ON THE TURN. His river action cannot change his turn image.

Now, I think its more bluffy as played, because lately I find a number of players attempting the call/lead/lead line OOP as a bluff.

so you mean to say that OP looks bluffy on the turn for betting, but by the river if he checks then suddenly he no longer looks bluffy to villain? lol.

also plenty of people check TP on the flop so they can value in later streets with such hands especially when OOP and deep..

Your English was imprecise, erego my comment on poor logic. You said that a check on the river makes his turn bet look more bluffy. I suggest that your check on the river makes your LINE look more bluffy. Your turn bet only has image value on the turn.

I agree with you on the logic of valuing top pair (standard line to me). I also hold that for some dumb reason this is the world's new favorite bluff line. If you really want, I can start a thread on it, with an example hand.