2/5, 9 handed, $1k max.

V - 30's-40's Indian fellow, wearing a surgical mask. I only sat down at the table recently, but I got the sense he was a bit splashy. Covers hero by maybe $100-$200.

H - early 50's WG. Just recently sat down, first or second orbit, possibly no table image yet, but might seem TAG-ish to an observant player. Hero has ~$1k to start the hand.

OTTH:

V opens to $20 from the LJ H 3B to $60 in CO with A5dd. V calls. Heads up to the flop. $120-ish in pot after rake.

FLOP - Jh7c5h. V checks. Hero c-bets $80. V calls. Pot $280.

TURN - 4d. V checks. Hero OB's $340. V x/r jams for hero's remaining $520. Pot $1140.

Hero?

Before everyone screams fold - what range are you giving V here, that plays this way (open-call pre, check-call flop, check-jam a fairly brick turn)?

We're getting over 2:1 on a call. Does V have enough bluffs here?

Anyone checking back flop or using a different c-bet size? Why?

Anyone checking back turn or barreling for a different size? Why?

Sorry, but I'd have to know a whole lot more about V before I called here. He could have JJ/77/55. Heck, he could have 68.

I just don't understand what he'd bluff w/ on the turn after you've shown so much interest in the hand.

I mean, by all means hero call w/ a pair of 5s versus a relative unknown, but I'm folding.

I don't really like 3betting unknowns with A5, but that's just me.

I would bet the flop alil less to round 65

As played, I'm either folding the flop or jamming, but since I don't think I have too much FE I would just fold, and I'm checking back the turn but after we put that much money in we should just get the rest in instead of giving up our equity in the pot.

why don't you think his line makes sense lol

I didn't want to give reads on a player based on generalizing along demographic lines.

My observation is that this type of fellow tends to be trigger-happy when it comes to check-raising thick value, such that I would think he'd be check-raising the flop with any sets or 2P, not that he should have much 2P in his range here, opening and calling a 3B pre.

My thinking in game was that if he's mostly check-raising flop with his sets, and he doesn't have much if any J7, J5, or 75 in his open-call range pre, he shouldn't have much if any 86 in his range, either.

If it earns me any street cred - my fist thought was to just fold. I did tank a good while, thinking about all those hands:

75/86 - is he really opening and calling a 3B pre with those hands? Wouldn't he x/r 75 on the flop, with this wet board texture (two straight draws and a flush draw)? Might he not also x/r 86hh as a bluff? If he just check-calls 86, might it not only be 86hh, given 9h and 4h aren't clean outs?

If he has 86hh, why check again on turn, when I could check back a lot, and draw to a flush, or possibly make a boat with JJ, or shut down with my over-pairs? Why jam rather than just call, possibly letting me get away from my bluffs?

J7s and J5s - card removal limits the combos to two each. Is he really opening all those, and calling my 3B when he's OOP? If so, wouldn't he x/r this wet flop when he makes a sneaky 2P?

JJ - wouldn't he sometimes 4B pre, or x/r this wet flop?

77/55 - wouldn't he x/r this wet flop?

AJ - I could have AA, KK, QQ, and occasionally JJ, as well as 77, and sporadically 55, or if I'm wild, 75 or 86. Why is he blasting off here with TPTK?

A7hh - why raise turn, rather than flop? Why turn 2nd pair with the NFD into a huge bluff?

Bottom line - if he's check-jamming for value/protection, why now, rather than the flop, when the 4d really doesn't change anything, unless I have 86, in which case, he's toast, or he has 86, and I find the fold with any hand that isn't JJ?

Like the thread title says - this line didn't make much sense to me. The only thick value hands I could think of that might be played this way are 86hh and A4hh. Those are the only two hands that might raise pre, call a 3B, check-call a flop, and are materially improved on this turn. I just wasn't very sure if 86hh actually gets opened and calls a 3B pre.

Explanation in my reply to javanewt, in my post above.

I’m fine with the way you played this—I would down-bet this flop but your size is fine…and I would overbet the Turn regardless….but you obviously have to fold here, he check-shoved over your overbet! And you’re even losing to some bluffs here (87hh, 66, 88).

JJ, 77, 55, 75s, 86ss, 54ss, sometimes AJ or KJ or QJ if he’s not very good, and some flush draws.

How can you make sense out of someone's play when you know nothing about them? You are assuming he plays the way you would.

I can easily see him slow-playing JJ/77/55 here because you 3bet pre and should not have hit this flop very hard. 4 is a blank for you more than for him, so he can check and hope you bet again and then jam. I've seen players bet/call pre with suited connectors plenty of times. Who knows what this guy is thinking?

If your spidey senses are telling you he's FOS, definitely go for it. From my computer, though, this is a snap fold.

Pre is OK, but once he calls the flop, I slow down on the turn. I might bet again, but never over-betting for this exact reason.

My read was that he wasn't very good. My logic was that if he's not very good, he might be spazzing with a much less obvious hand, such as A4hh, 98hh, T9hh, KQhh, AXhh, etc.

I was thinking his range could be any hand that a rec-fish might think looks good enough to open and call a 3B from LP pre, and somewhat connects with this board, well enough that he would want to continue on a draw when the pot is still relatively small on the flop, but would rather jam turn to get me to fold than call and have to donk-bluff or check-fold river when I shove.

Snap fold. Baluga theorem 101.

I don't think I could ever make sense of his play, no matter how much I knew about him. It flat out didn't make any sense to me, the longer I thought about it.

I know good players who will slow-play flopped sets in a 3B pot here. They might check-jam this turn, but if they're putting me on an over-pair, they'd be more likely to just flat call than jam and take a chance I'll escape their trap. Why check-jam when my over-pairs only have 2 outs?

This guy was limp-calling what looked like 80% of the hands he was dealt, in every position. I couldn't give him credit for being a good player, watching him make multiple horrendous plays over one or two orbits.

No idea what he was thinking, but my spidey-sense was going bananas. I tanked for a solid two minutes on this one.

Because people don’t like to fold overpairs

As others have already said, the fact that you don’t beat all his bluffs is already enough to tell you you should fold this. You lose to, for example, 76. You also lose to 66 and 88 if he got here and bluffs those. You are also only slightly ahead if he has a good deal of heart draws, and that hurts you too (96hh for example has 21 outs against you). Any hand he can have will either have you sweating the river or drawing dead or almost dead.

Also I hate the entire hand as played up to here too.

In my cardroom and probably most 1/2 games everywhere, about 70 percent of the players are loose passives. Without a read, assume V is a loose passive. V calls your 3bet oop and calls your c-bet on a dry flop. Your pair of fives is now a weak
holding. Check back turn and fold to any river bet. If he has AK, good for him. Playbig know much more than I about when to bluff, but I would save your bluffs for a V on whom you have a better read.

I was talking about good players. This guy's been VPIP'ing 80%, with a ton of limp-calling, and making horrendous plays.

I would check flop to give his unpaired Ax a chance to hit an Ace that might fold flop.

Also let his worst hands start bluffing.

Turn overbet is fine on your line but pretty sure you have to fold as most people aren't doing this readless where perceived fold equity is close to 0.

He can have 86, 77 and JJ. Maybe Ah4h once in awhile. But I think most semi bluffs would choose to CR flop rather than a double barrel turn overbet where the guy put half his stack in the middle already.

Check flop for sure, we dont have range advantage and we have some SD

Turn is a no brainer check, not sure why your betting.

As played 520 to win 2k, we need 25% around, you only have 10% if you count your 2 pair outs as good which they might not be, you’d have to be extremely confident that he’s just spazz shoving every draw to make this call and you cant be sure because he is an unknown so in conclusion FOLD.

You asked why he would check jam when your overpairs only have 2 outs. Because he’s already set his trap and doesn’t expect you to fold an overpair. Especially after 3-betting, c-betting, and overbet barreling.

I don't get the turn overbet. We are saying monster or bluff and we don't have too many monsters (JJ, 77 maybe). Villain could have any set, two pair, straight.

With the x/r the only way I can get to calling is if he's on the level of thinking (fairly accurately) you're full of it bc that isn't supposed to be a good board for you.

Fair enough. I like you're thinking. Humor me a moment longer, if you will.

If he thinks I'm full of it, he could be raising with a weak hand, to out-bluff the bluffer, so to speak, yes?

I'll post the reveal tomorrow. Care to hazard a guess what V had before I let the cat out of the bag?

My guess is that the Villain had a set of 7s and you torched 200 BBs with third pair and then rushed to 2+2 to post about it.

Bad read Davo, vilain obviously had Kh3h hero makes a great call, brick river, were all idiots , op is the greatest player of all time.

His line makes sense to me. And I think we want to check flop.

In the OP you sat down recently and thought the guy seemed a bit splashy. Now he's been VPIP'ing 80%, with a ton of limp-calling, and making horrendous plays?

I hope you were right and your 5 held, but this is not about poker anymore. We've already told you a ton of hands that you lose to and why he would play them this way -- and why you lose to some of his bluffs. Good luck.

We put way too much money in with a pair of 5's. I don't understand why you're trying to bluff the splashy player with no equity. There's also the problem that he might decide a jack is good and shove it now so he doesn't get a bad river card.