Hero (2700): aggressive image, Has a lot of history with villains
V1(2200): Aggressive player. Not super trick checing nuts, unless its heads up. He can make hero call and big bluffs from time to time. Usually solid but very aggressive with hands and some draws

OTH
MP raises to 40, I call in HJ with Ad7d, CO 3 bets to 125, button calls, MP calls, HJ calls

I can here people saying: FOLD PREEEE but in this game there is usually a lot of action multiway and if I hit my hand I can easily stack someone. We are all 200-400bbs deep

Flop(515): Td9c4d
Checks around

Turn(515): 5c
MP checks, hero checks (could have take a stab at the pot after everyone showed weakness, but CO and button are aggressive players so I was planning to check raise if a bet comes or have a free river card). CO checks, button bets 125, MP calls, hero raises to 500, CO folds, button folds and MP calls

River (1740): 8h
MP tanks for a while and checks. Hero goes all in for 1475 effective

I really think that MP is weak. He is an aggressive player who checked flop, check call turn and checked river. Very hard he has 2 pair, set or Tx here since he would have already betted or raised before. My check raise on the turn and bet on the river is representing a lot of strenght

Thoughts?

What value hands do you x/r the turn with? Seems like the flop check round implies you should lead all your two pair plus hands, I know that I would. Other than this problem, it's a strong line.

Pre you could have 3bet but as played its an easy call.

The way you played this hand looks like a club draw/combo draw. MP holding any kind of QJ or straight draw doesn't make sense due to double flush board, maybe Tc8c is the only big hand you need to be worried about on the river but the main issue in the hand is you also look weak so I could see MP as described playing a QT/JT this way and checking for pot control on a scary board. He has no one left behind him when he calls 375 when there is 1250~ in the pot so its not nearly as tough of a call as it sounds vs a very aggro H.

If both of you played a lot together then you should know what types of cards you have taking this line. If you never x flop x turn multiway with a 2 pair+ hand V should have this read on you too and the line you took looks exactly what you should have in this spot which is a big draw trying to push people out. Would you x/r 55 or 54s on the turn? Thats still only 5 combos vs a huge amount of draw combos.

3bet pre. Bet the turn since CO and BTN already admitted they have nothing. Probably give up river unless only CO or BTN called and you can safely fire river vs either of those 2 on a blank.

As Werebeer mentions, what hands are you x/r the turn with for value? In the heat of the moment, the villain might not notice the line looks fishy.

I will note you're HU on the river and your read is the villain could make a "hero call." I think you could have bet less (1/2 pot) and gotten the same result.

If you just call turn your NFD is also pretty disguised and your raise may have pushed out BTN's weaker FD. Its harder for MP to have a draw where BTN can have a lot more gapper diamond draws in his range.

Hand looks like you have 55, 6d7d, 6c7c, QcJc or nothing the way you played it. All your opponents likely know how capable of bluffing you are. It was a weird line to take. If I was V I would give most players credit for one of those hands on the river because it is so strange and I would need to come up with three combos of bluffs H could do this with. But not vs this H. Because this H has 15 combos of bluffs.

No. Missed front door NFDs are *terrible* bluff candidates, even when played well (and this is not played well on any street). You need to have a few missed draws in your river check/give-up range, and on almost every runout the best hand for that is the missed NFD.

No money went in on the flop, so I think this is discounted.


Lots of draws and half of them got there, you have a 7 which blocks an obvious one for mediocre flop hand; good turn one; nut river. Probably better to have that than a Q/J where those hands are more likely to bet turn.

People saying you don't have much value is fair, but is fine as long as you don't have many bluffs either. I'm assuming you are taking this bluff line with only A7/A6 dd/cc so it seems fine, if almost anything gets in there it's probably going to be bluff heavy.

What hands can V have that can call me down on the river? He doesnt have 2 pair (unless he somewhat called me with 98), he may have QJ and try to trap me but unlikely, he doesnt have TX. So Will he hero call me with 9x or some random pair? He has Many missed draws too that can fold to a small bluff on river, but I decided to go all in to balance my Range when I do have it

Call you; most hands that beat you. I don't think he is trying to trap you but given from description you will bet almost every missed draw it isn't a hero call to believe you are bluffing enough to call you with 3rd pair.

If V is a thinking player your line looks FOS. V may be a thinking player who believes your line doesn't make sense but just gives in to the pressure anyway.

It's not a good bluff but still may work.

I know you don't want to hear it but you need to fold pre. Facing RFI fold>3b>call and after getting squeezed you absolutely need to get out of the pot. You will hit your flush like 5% of the time, another 5% you will hit 2p+, but you won't always be able to realize that. And the other 90% will be trash spots with bluffcatchers/busted fd you don't really want to bluff/air.

AP it's kind of whatever otr, not the greatest spot to bluff because lol blockers, but you don't really have anything else to bluff with and certainly can rep some value. If you would've xr turn with gutters like KQ/KJ they are better bluffs otr, but I don't know if that's happening. Would be a fine play though. FWIW I wouldn't hero you here unless you are way way ool, these gutters don't really xr turn in live games and somewhat decent players usually give up busted NFDs, other than that everything got there. On the other hand I can see some players stationing aggro opponents here because of you checking twice before repping big, villain could also have a straight quite often imo.

I know that missed front door flush draw are usually not good bluff candidates but that has to do more with situations where money goes in on the flop

Here the front door draw and the backdoor draw are equally likely to be in both the MP and Hero’s range because flop checked around, and one player holding the front door draw doesn’t block the other player from holding the back door draw.

I don’t see what other natural bluff candidates the hero can have here because even QJs/76s both came in. So if hero’s gonna bluff then A7s blocking one of the straights seems like a prime candidate.

Turn raise is just terrible. We get direct odds to make our flush and risk getting jammed off our equity by x/raising.

AP river: we target J8s, T8s, T9s and 54s for folds. MP obviously turned more equity, or else he couldn't call our turn raise. We have compressed his range.

So, can V fold two pair getting 2-1 when all the FDs have bricked? No. Can he fold J8s? Yes. He has more two pair combos than J8s. I think we offer him the right price to call, so I don't like our bluff because we rep so thin.

The result ended as follows:

I dont aggree with the 2 pair range you are putting. Do you think he is checking flop and check calling 2 pair on the turn? In the turn he doesnt have T9 or 54 otherwise he would have raised before I did. He may have Tx, 9x or some draw. On the river the only combos that completed are QJ and 67. If he somewhat called me with T8, 98 on the turn he got 2 pair and we are crushed. Other than that he has a very weak range.

Also I dont think he will ever check flop, check call turn in a multiway pot and then raise me back. It would be a super crazy line

Are you never check raising with a nut flush draw on the turn? Maybe its not a credible line in a multi way pot since I would have lead most of my 2 pairs/sets, but his line is very weak in my opinion

Look Luz, I'm glad your bluff worked. But it worked against an idiot. I wouldn't conclude much of significance from this unique situation. If a good V made a straight on this river, he would check since H has taken a polarized line on the turn and V would expect you to continue so V can stack you.

Funny reading the reactions. I think you played the hand remarkably well - while yes you're representing a narrow range MP has shown he is either drawing on the thinner side (bare FD) or has some kind of weak pair hand. This is a typical spot where villains have marginal/weak value hands and we represent a narrow range of nutty hands - as long as you don't have a maniac image this will work a lot so I like it.

He has a maniac image

Strongly disagree with almost everything. Preflop play instantly disqualifies this from being remarkably well played hands. Both calls are losing, the second one especially.

In theory this is a solid line postflop, but live players don't believe anything after you checked twice, for noone actually checks good hands twice in these games. Opponent has lots of bluffcatchers and some straights, but there are close to 0 autofolds in his range. Because of suspicious double check line they will have a hard time letting go of said bluffcatchers. This is proven by results: in a 4way squeeze pot after someone xr turn shove river, people generally don't debate calling off with second pair, but this is what happened here. Despite this line being very hard to overbluff on this runout (if you ever checked good hands twice that is), people still way underfold river. It is not the most exciting bluff spot to say the least. Playing value hands this way is printing.

In addition, as someone already pointed it out, hero probably does have a maniacish image judging by his description of himself, his play and the play of his opponents.

Not counting what others have said, it's not a good bluff for the sole reason that MP called twice (the button's bet, and your raise). You have to ask yourself what hands he's likely going to do that with? There are fair amount of combo draws that can comfortably call there that could reasonably have connected with that river, 6c7c, QdJd, QcJc, and Jc7c being the notable ones. Then there are the obvious 2pr hands like T8/T9 that can also call turn and river. 44 isn't very likely, considering that would have likely went all-in over your turn raise.

There just isn't enough spots for this to be a profitable bluff, considering the turn action.

What about all the missed flush draws and weak pairs calling turn? The only credible hands that can call me on the river are QJ, T8 and 67. Tx, 9x can hero call me but is extremely hard with that polarizing line. All missed flush draws instantly fold

I don't know. Run the numbers and see what the solvers say. I guess you could make arguments for both the bluff being good or bad.

You already beat all the missed whiffed flush draws.

What happens if we call me with a naked pair? A shove is folding all his nit nutty Range, and I don't think he has Many straights calling the turn