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General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair

09-11-2014 , 07:19 PM
It's possible OP is 3betting TT-QQ too often.
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
09-11-2014 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
It's possible OP is 3betting TT-QQ too often.
Winner
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
09-11-2014 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
From the looser players, I expect them to call a 3! with their entire opening range, especially if I min-raise to isolate. 100% min-raises and maybe 75% of 3x initial raise 3!'s.

From the tighter players, I expect to get called by TT+ and AK/AQs types. I also tend not to min-raise the tighter players as that makes it an easier set-mine situation so popping tighter players I am going 3x + 0.5 per caller.

I feel like my observations are lacking. My reads generally consist of how tight/loose people are preflop, how often they open raise vs. limp, and what kinds of hands they show down with. But this manifests in pretty basic reads like "calls down light with TPWK," "only opens strong hands" etc. I haven't gotten to the point where I am ranging people on specific brackets of hands.
I think those reads are ok, you just have to realize what they mean with regards to what their range looks like on certain board runouts. You should also supplement them with reads about postflop tendencies that will tell you whether you can extract value from your hand, how much, and in what runouts.

In general, the main things that you want to know are:

1) will your villain call 3bet with a hand that can connect a second-best pair?

2) If he does, will he own himself against your overpair?

2) Does your villain play two-overcard hands passively or aggressively in 3bet pots?

If the answer to either of these is "I don't know", then you should err on the side of flatting with QQ to keep hands that you will dominate postflop in V's range. However, if V calls with TT, JJ, AJ/AT, or worse, and he will put a ton of money in when he hits top pair vs your overpair (or a dominated overpair), and you know how V plays AK/AQ when he whiffs, then go ahead and repop him. Don't worry so much about running into KK+, it's a minority of his range even if he's completely uncapped (if he ever jams pre with them it's even less likely he has them).
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
09-12-2014 , 10:28 AM
Well I didn't run into any 3! flats last night so no update on that front but I did mix up my game a little bit, playing one pair hands more conservatively, betting nutty draws harder and trying to see cheap flops with speculative IO hands rather than raising RIO hands like KJo in LP after a number of limpers. Pretty good results though I want to spend more time refining it.

Cheap flops in LP + value raising IO hands = win monies at 1/2?
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
09-12-2014 , 10:44 AM
By the way, if I am trying to get my confidence back and book some wins, logically I should probably avoid the tables with multiple 250+ BB stacks right? Lately I like being table captain of a bunch of 100 BB stacks. Big fish in small pond kind of thing. I feel it lets me play my game better and people don't play back very tricky vs. me, mostly straightforward unimaginative fit-or-fold types of players. Max win amount is probably less but seems to be lower variance.
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
09-12-2014 , 10:51 AM
You should play whatever you feel comfortable playing. Personally I like playing deep against villains I can read, because it lets me speculate and play aggro, but if your game is beating up shorties, by all means keep doing that.

My only caveat is that you should always get up if you're ever sitting in with more than one person against whom effective stacks are 1/4 of your bankroll or more.
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
09-12-2014 , 05:53 PM
How do you feel about your post flop play? Can you fold good (but not great) hands if the flop is unfavorable? If so, then you may save some money by keeping the pot a little smaller pre-flop and then using your skills to reduce your losses when you're beat.

If you aren't as comfortable post-flop then you should be trying to get as much money in pre-flop as you can. Not only does that mean you're generally getting your money in good, but it also makes your post flop decisions easier.

Relative stack size should also play a role in your decisions. If you or your opponent is short, then just get it in there with your good hands. If you and your opponent are deep stacked, you want to avoid trapping yourself into a big pot before you see the flop.
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
05-21-2015 , 12:22 PM
Roughly 8 months later I can say I was partially running into some negative variance but also plugged this leak by doing a better job of choosing which opponents I 3! vs. "set mined" with QQ-TT type hands when it was very likely they were holding an overpair.

I enjoy going back and reading old threads I've started and seeing the evolution of how I thought about situations previously and the progress I've made since then. I love this game.
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote
05-22-2015 , 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Something I have seen happening quite frequently to me at 1/2 is me 3! hands like TT-QQ and having villains flat the 3! with KK/AA rather than 4! or shoving.

Now when I flop an overpair I am usually CR or I bet and they smooth and then not sure what to do on the turn. Is this a result of me not ranging my opponents well enough?

This has happened in my last 3 sessions on somewhat draw heavy boards so it seems like a mistake for my villain's to give me the opportunity to check behind and take a free card to dominate their hand. Or maybe it's just negative variance and I am on the wrong side of overpair vs. overpair?

Sorry I don't have a specific hand, although I could post the 3 hands I am thinking of if that will make analysis easier. Just seems like a new trend of people flatting AA/KK instead of 4! to keep their range wider and I get too trigger happy with my overpair.

In general (I know, nothing in poker is "in general,") should you be more hesitant of c-betting a moderate overpair (TT-QQ) on a flop when your V just smooth calls your 3!?
grunch. think about their calling range when you 3bet. if you cant comfortably 3bet QQ JJ and stack of post then just flat. aginst unknowns i recommend flatting QQ JJ AK pre
General Strategy: My 3! Getting Flatted by KK/AA then I Overplay Overpair Quote

      
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