Galfond-esque. Which hand would you rather have? - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Galfond-esque. Which hand would you rather have?

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10-28-2011 , 01:40 AM

#26

BigSkip

The Situation

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 20,102

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

*snort*

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:41 AM

#27

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSkip

Wait...whut? Dear lord.

Speak like a man, or don't speak.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:42 AM

#28

Lifeisagrind

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by poke4fun

Hero holds JTo.

Board: 7 5 2

Easy fold.

------------------------------

Hero holds TT.

Board: 7 5 2

Not so much.

------------------------------

Hero holds JTo

Board J 8 2

Hero decided to shove.

Equity against AA: 21.6%.

------------------------------

Hero holds TT

Board J 8 2

Hero decided to shove.

Equity against AA: 11.6%.

------------------------------

Against a deadly LAG, like I said, I like JTo better than TT.

dude are you trolling

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:43 AM

#29

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

LOL, maybe I am on a different planet.

I read this question as more than...

Which hand is better:

1. TT
2. A9o
3. JTo
4. 67s

But I guess the rest of you only see it as such.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:47 AM

#30

Lifeisagrind

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,524

hahaha dude you're not thinking on a higher level then anyone..... you gave two extremely arbitrary examples, one of which u told us to fold TT on a 752 board (wtf? try stoving TT against a reasonable CO opening range on that board) and then u shoved JT on J82 (how the *** can that be good if we're folding TT on a 752 board against that same range)

but seriously if this is all a giant level then well done.... how do u have 2k+posts is beyond me

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:48 AM

#31

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

poke i hope for your sake you're being completely intellectually dishonest with your four examples, because if they are actually relevant than you are the worst post flop player ever.

i mean that in the nicest way possible.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:49 AM

#32

BigSkip

The Situation

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 20,102

Quote:

Originally Posted by poke4fun

Speak like a man, or don't speak.

Nothing more I can say. I am getting verklempt. Please talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic. The peanut is neither a pea nor a nut. Discuss.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:49 AM

#33

PokahBlows

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,999

Lol, op, this post is not optimal in low-stakes. For the reason being most are level 1/1.5 thinkers,smh. Lol @ikestoys really stoving these hands. Its a feel post math is not needed.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:51 AM

#34

au4all

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

2) If you're giving up about 25% in reverse implied odds in position with TT then you're just about the worst player ever.

I'm highly amused that you think that 150 big blinds deep against Ivey that the exact pre-flop equity of your hand will determine your success.

You obviously don't have the vaguest idea what reverse implied odds is. Or if you do, you're an absolute master at hiding it.

By the way, the answer to the question that the OP asked hasn't been properly answered. The correct answer is roughly 25% of each. If you don't think Ivey can figure out how to play against someone who thinks that there's one right play you don't know the first thing about poker.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:57 AM

#35

illini43

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,829

ike is spot on here and its comical reading responses arguing against anything he says

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:57 AM

#36

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokahBlows

Lol, op, this post is not optimal in low-stakes. For the reason being most are level 1/1.5 thinkers,smh. Lol @ikestoys really stoving these hands. Its a feel post math is not needed.

Him stoving the example proves 1 point.

He doesn't know that TT has the most equity against a random range.

LOL.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:58 AM

#37

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by au4all

Thank God, here's someone that thinks beyond "jeez, which card is bigger, Ace or King?"

Quote

10-28-2011 , 01:59 AM

#38

Lifeisagrind

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,524

derp derp pretty sure ikestoys stoved it for your guys' benefit

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:01 AM

#39

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Well, it's all there if anyone wants to learn.

Poke, I like how you brought up 4 examples and instead ignored a method that brought up every possible example and evaluates how likely we are to win.

If someone else brings up a good question I'll answer, but there's not much else to say.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:03 AM

#40

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Nothing left to say.

Exactly my very first point. If you think the question asks, "which of the following hands has the most equity," then there is nothing left to say.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:04 AM

#41

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Poke, I like how you brought up 4 examples and instead ignored a method that brought up every possible example and evaluates how likely we are to win.

It's actually quite amusing that you think that others aren't capable of seeing the most obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

If someone else brings up a good question I'll answer, but there's not much else to say.

Also very amusing that you think very highly of your "insights."

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:08 AM

#42

Lifeisagrind

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,524

wait so what exactly is the argument for any of those other hands > TT?

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:14 AM

#43

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Obviously my results aren't 100% for everybody, but running some filters on my HEM database:

TT v CO open OTB (820bb/100 27 instances)
JTs v CO open OTB ( 396bb/100 in 27 instances - ran hot too)

Expanding some:

TT v any open OTB (1095bb/100 in 54 instances)
JTs v any open OTB (110bb/100 in 52 instances)

Just for your reference, you should go through your own if you have the chance.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:14 AM

#44

illini43

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by au4all

I'm highly amused that you think that 150 big blinds deep against Ivey that the exact pre-flop equity of your hand will determine your success.

So having AA here is no different than 54o from a total 'success' point of view?

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:16 AM

#45

poke4fun

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,191

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

You're still caught up with the fact that TT is a better hand than JTo, something that NO one is refuting.

Seriously dude, try to join the topic when you're done researching different ways of showing that TT has more equity than JTo.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:17 AM

#46

rr00676

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 71

if not TT then get up and go to an easier table

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:19 AM

#47

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Why don't you want the hand with more equity?

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:19 AM

#48

rr00676

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by poke4fun

what if we know talk CO into checking it down to the river?

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:19 AM

#49

illini43

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,829

poke, im curious why you think JTo is preferable to TT in this spot.

Quote

10-28-2011 , 02:20 AM

#50

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by illini43

poke, im curious why you think JTo is preferable to TT in this spot.

Given that he's basically admitted TT makes more money I'm confused as well. I like money.

Quote

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