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Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction?

12-08-2012 , 02:36 PM
Game is $2-$100 spread-limit. Blinds are $1 and $2, the most you can raise at any time is $100 over the previous bet.

HERO (button): White, 27, male. Stack of around $450 off a $300 buy-in. I have a pretty LAG-image at the casino, along with a reputation of a solid player at this game.

VILLAIN (big blind): Asian, male, early 30s. He's a regular, friendly with the card-room staff (who know him by name). He's very tight and very passive--he will only raise pre-flop with the Hellmuth Hands, and, unless he flops the world, will just check-call until the hand is over. (This makes him very liable to getting bluffed, as, if any draw comes in and his opponent bets, he always assumes his hand is no good, and folds.) So, if it helps, let's imagine he's 75 and white. He bought in for $300, and has a stack of about $280 at the start of this hand.

3 players limp. I raise with 55 on the button to $12. Villain calls in Big Blind, the 3 limpers call.

FLOP: 654 ($60)

Villain leads out for $26. The limpers all fold. I opt to call.

TURN: 4 ($112)

Villain tanks for a full minute, then bets $100 (the maximum you're allowed to bet). He has $142 behind.

...If my sole objective here is to get all of his money (IOW: I am never folding), what's the best way to extract from THIS TYPE of villain?

Thanks.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 03:03 PM
Raise to $200, shove river, otherwise he may just check/fold river if you call.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Raise to $200, shove river, otherwise he may just check/fold river if you call.
This. He may also check/call river and leave $42 on the table. You don't need to overthink this hand too much. If you raise and he folds, you (probably) weren't getting a call on the river anyways.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 06:34 PM
yeah, no matter what kind of villain it is, it's just your basic situation of he's got a 4 (maybe even a worse boat?!) and he's gonna call a big turn raise (which you have to make before action killers hit) or he's got a draw that you have to make pay before he misses it.

only situation where this might be different is if this were a total maniac you had every reason to believe had nothing and just wanted to induce a river bluff. but this is a fairly common 1/2 type.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 06:58 PM
Could you elaborate on why you chose not to raise on the flop?
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davomalvolio
He's very tight and very passive--he will only raise pre-flop with the Hellmuth Hands, and, unless he flops the world, will just check-call until the hand is over.

.
This "very tight" V leads out on flop and max bets turn! Hmmmm??

So, what range of hands do we put him on? Is it too MUBSY to think exactly 66 is highly probable and a turn call / fold to large river bet is a consideration?
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notam
This "very tight" V leads out on flop and max bets turn! Hmmmm??

So, what range of hands do we put him on? Is it too MUBSY to think exactly 66 is highly probable and a turn call / fold to large river bet a consideration?
Terrible. He can have a 4, 54, 64, or a straight.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 07:27 PM
Villain clearly loves his hand, but we'd need more reads to say he wouldn't be in love with two pair here. Absent those reads, we are definitely getting stacks in.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 07:52 PM
Based on description he probably has a 4 or a straight or 66. 66 is extremely unlikely since there are only 3 combos of 66 And way way more combos of 4x and straights so u must raise the max on turn before any scare cards come.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 07:55 PM
Basically if ur description of villain is 100% correct he will never have an overpair or big draw here and it would be a huge mistake not to raise max on turn (unless he is capable of folding a 4 or straight on the turn of course in which case u should call turn and shove river)
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 10:23 PM
Quote:
This "very tight" V leads out on flop and max bets turn! Hmmmm??

So, what range of hands do we put him on? Is it too MUBSY to think exactly 66 is highly probable and a turn call / fold to large river bet a consideration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
Terrible. He can have a 4, 54, 64, or a straight.
Yes, with The Rumor. If I'm behind, I'll just go broke in this spot 100% of the time, and just chalk it up to a Cooler. My only concern is: IF I'm ahead, what's the best way to get all of his chips into the pot?
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-08-2012 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Nuts
Could you elaborate on why you chose not to raise on the flop?
Mostly for deception.

I'm up against one opponent--there are a lot of hands that kill my action (2, 3, 7, 8, club), but it's less than half the deck, and I still have position on him. I feel that raising the turn lets him off the hook too easily with a hand like 68 or something.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-09-2012 , 03:23 AM
He just bet into you half his stack and you are asking how to get the rest? Arrr in!! Click it back, then click again when he puts last bet in. EZ game.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-13-2012 , 08:10 PM
UPDATE:

I opted to raise to $200. Opponent tanked for a minute before folding, claiming he had 78 for the straight, and, hell, I can believe him.

In hindsight, it now seems like just calling the turn bet would be the safest move--my hand looks more like an overpair than a boat.

But, oh well. I still won!
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-14-2012 , 01:28 PM
I'd rather just overlimp preflop, unless this is a pot juicer with bigger stacks. Is our plan to barrel thru 4 opponents when we whiff the flop the vast majority of the time? Best hand wins in this case, and we're very unlikely to end up with it.

I raise the flop. I basically count the whole deck as a scare card for the turn (seriously, any over card and 77 gets freaked out, not to mention all the 3-to-a-flush / 4-to-a-straight cards). We have to start getting money in now to build the pot to play for stacks on the river. Our hand is also well disguised. I would raise to $110 - $125 or so, which sets up an easy turn shove.

As played on the turn, I shove. Our hand is still well disguised and probably looks like an overpair. However, if we just call, there are still a lot of scare cards that could come that might get this guy to fold. He's just put in almost 1/2 his stack, I highly doubt he's folding now, but he might on certain horrible rivers.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-14-2012 , 07:01 PM
If he seriously bet $100 and folded the nut straight for only $142 more then bluff this villain every time the nuts on the flop changes on the turn. Bet/Folding 78 here is so extremely bad vs almost anyone so take advantage of your nit image!! You have a LAG image and still got a fold here?!?!? wtf

Last edited by CWhite4; 12-14-2012 at 07:01 PM. Reason: just reread that you have a lag image
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote
12-14-2012 , 07:01 PM
generally when I find myself in these spots, I ignore the part of his range that isn't going to pay me anyway (tp, small overpairs etc.). Target the part that wont be able to foldvery easily. Go after the flopped straight/big pairs. They're the only ones you'll get money out of anyway on this board. That being said, I probably just raise. It would be criminal for one of you not to have your money in the middle by the end.
Full house against tight-passive Villain. Extraction? Quote

      
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