Foxwoods 5/10, 9-handed.

Villain is Kyle. He opens tons of hands preflop. I have seen him bluff a lot, and some of his bluffs have been pretty bad. He knows that I know he bluffs a lot. Also, he knows that I am a tight, thinking player capable of big calldowns, bluffs, etc. I think Kyle is a decent player, just overly optimistic in some spots.

Effective stacks 2000.

I am on the button with 77.

Preflop
Villain opens from the CO to 35, as he would do with a huge range, and I 3-bet to 115. I am way ahead of his range and don't expect him to 4-bet light, so seems OK to me. He calls.

Flop (250): 244
We both check.

Turn (250): 2
We both check.

River (250): 2
Villain leads for 175 without too much thought. I say "yuck" and look directly at him. He cracks a smile. I think for a while, and then he says something about how he hopes I don't have kings right now, sort of joking that I am such a cautious player. What do I do here? It doesn't seem like he is bluffing. He probably figures I would bet the flop if I had air or a big pair, so maybe in his mind I have ace high or a mid pocket pair. Not sure he would expect me to 3-bet in the first place with a pair as low as 77. Not sure, but I don't think he would have played AA, KK, or QQ this way. He is probably valuebetting JJ and TT here. But what about 99, 88, 66, and 55? A guy like this who bluffs this much is going to be aware that he can make some pretty thin valuebets. But with the timing and the things he said, do I attach less weight to the pairs I beat and just fold?

i mean, your hand is massively underrepped? call?

it's probably a lot easier if you just bet flop and then bet turn and check back the river. or check tur nand river, whatever.

i don't like pre, i don't like flop or turn and if we are doing anything other than calling river as played, then i hate that too

Betting flop and turn makes no sense to me. How would I get called by worse on the turn without a ton of history against this guy?

you need to open up your pf 3betting range if you can't bet this flop w/ 77 and get called by worse. why are you 3betting 77 pf in the first place if when the flop comes 244r you feel like you can't bet? wtf.

edit: and you really, really need to call this riv as played.

I suppose betting the flop is a decent idea because he will call me with worse sometimes. But the bet is fairly marginal, especially because this is live poker, and if I check back I figure I won't be totally lost on later streets because of physical tells, timing, etc.

You should be polarizing your 3b range here not merging it in this spot imo


As played flop is whatever, but as played I'd bet turn bet river, and then as played again def call river

this

OK, please help me understand preflop better. Suppose villain is opening 75% of hands from the CO here. If I call, then I am likely to bring in one of the blinds, and 77 in a 3-way pot doesn't seem great. If it ends up being heads-up, then he will be cbetting a lot, and I will be somewhat lost. By 3-betting, I take control of the hand and give myself more options. He will probably call and check to me on the flop, which seems like the nicest spot to be in.

Getting called by worse is not the only value. Anyways, if you weren't such a nit, you would get called by worse.

While most of your hands are fundamentally terrible, I've noticed a pattern where you are constantly putting yourself in spots where you're calling and guessing instead of playing aggressively. But, if I were you, I'd concentrate on the fundamentals before I even worried about that leak. I know this sounds harsh, but it's not meant to be.

Yeah, he's not betting and you're not posting it on 2p2. lol

fds, I appreciate the feedback, and I see what you are saying about my game. However, you need to keep in mind that I am playing live poker against mostly weak players, and I am pretty observant and good at reading people. In this context, "fundamentals" change a lot. Why play aggressively when I can check back, keep pots small, etc. and along the way allow my opponents to give away everything about their hand? Sure, this gets me in trouble occasionally, but my philosophy is to get to the turn and river cheaply because by then I will have gathered tons of info about my opponent's hand. Would I do this online or versus great players? No, but that's not what I'm dealing with usually.

Fair enough. Do whatever works for you. Obviously you post for feedback, and I'm just giving my .02.

You say that 77s are way ahead of his range pre-flop then you get a pretty innocuous flop and are suddenly concerned about getting called by "worse"?

I would never fold the river as played and I always bet the flop.

im still not sure why you want to 3b 77 because its "way" ahead of his range but youre now worried about your hand on a 244 flop...

care to elaborate in case im misunderstanding something

why arent you betting this flop?

um looks like the easiest call in the world to me, i may even venture to fist pump a little bit

this is a ridiculously easy call. he thinks you are chopping.

I don't play these stakes but...

75% is pretty wide:
22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J2s+,T2s+,92s+,83s+,73s+,63s+,5 2s+,43s,A2o+,K2o+,Q2o+,J4o+,T6o+,96o+,86o+,75o+,65 o

you really think he's opening T2s or K2o? I suppose being this deep it's possible.

But even if he is opening 75%, 77 has ~62% preflop. The main point tho is his continuance range is probably significantly tighter than that. Which means that 77 has even less equity.

Say he's continuing with 1/2 of his opening range:
44+,A2s+,K3s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A4o+,K7o+,Q8 o+,J9o+,T9o
We now have ~55% equity and that's not really way ahead and is he really calling a 3bet from a tight player OOP w/ a hand like K7o or Q8o? His continuance range may be even tighter than this in which case we have even less equity.

I'm not even trying to say that 3betting is necessarily bad but I think the better arguement for 3betting would be stack sizes. If there were 100bb eff stacks, I think 3betting 77 is pretty bad. At 200bb eff stacks, I think there's possibly more merit to 3betting but it's not just because we're way ahead of his range. I'm not a great deep stack player and I'm really not sure if 3betting 77 here is good at all though.

OTF, our equity improves against pretty much any range we've assigned him preflop. Why not cbet?

If a large portion of his range is unpaired overs, him folding his equity share isn't bad for us. It's a 3bet pot so taking it down now isn't a bad thing imo. If a large portion of his range is bigger PP's than 3betting at all is pretty bad.

What range did you put villain on?



...Like I said though, when I play live I play 200NL so I don't have any experience at all at these stakes so anyone feel free to correct me if my thinking is wrong here.

Edit: As played, I wouldn't fold OTR.

You know what, I think you are right. Even if he knows that he has a really bluffy image here, he is still pretty likely to bet because he will figure I won't want to call for a chop. I was reading into the tells too much and overthinking this one.

Results: I called and he had TT.

Well, I'm way ahead of his opening range, but less ahead of his range that calls my 3-bet. And I do even worse against his range of hands that calls a flop bet. And then there is the off chance that he decides to checkraise bluff the flop, which would suck. What's so bad about seeing another card?

No he had TT, Dude. How could he think you would chop with him? You think he put you on TT, too? Easy fold on river.

Just be happy he ****ed up and didn't go for 2 streets here With his image, I think it's pretty terrible for him to check the turn.

This deep, I think the 3-bet is fine, but my preference would be to 3-bet worse holdings that have some value but aren't as great for a flat call (small to mid suited gappers for example). It's going to be rare, IMO, that he calls your 3-bet and then you end up showing down the winner. When you 3-bet, you're doing it b/c he's folding a ton of his opening range and when he does call, you can get him to lay down the best hand a fair amount after the flop. You're almost never winning a big pot, given the preflop showing of strength. If there were a fish or two in the blinds, it's an obvious flat call since I'd rather bring one of them in then go heads up against Kyle's 3-bet calling range. Live poker is a lot about bringing the right opponents in against you, since the skill level in just about all games varies from atrocious to very solid.

As played, I would probably check the flop and bet the turn, since I would discount higher pairs after his turn check, and I wouldn't want to play a guessing game on the river, where Kyle is capable of very thin value as well as bluffs. On the turn, I'd just want him to fold his overcards. I also don't think he's check raising the turn w/o a big hand since you can easily have a big pair there. Betting the turn also makes the river easy. If he calls the turn, I'd be checking behind everything except for an ace or a king, and probably betting 2/3 pot on those cards to fold out his 8's, 9's, 10's, J's. With your image, I think this bet works over 50% of the time.

As played, the river call is probably about break even, and in real time I don't think there's any way that I'm folding. There's a solid chance that he thinks you're chopping and he's making a blocking bet that might actually fold out a chop. And as you say, he may be value betting worse pairs. You're probably good about a third of the time.

I don't like the 3B preflop. As you know he c-bets with a really high frequency, and if you know your way ahead of his CO opening range I'd rather pick flops to raise his c-bet and take it down then, coupled with set-mining and allowing him to barrel you. There really aren't many good flops for you if he calls your 3B; it would seem to me you have to bet almost all flops given your tight perceived 3betting range. Not betting the flop here (on all non-crazy wet boards) makes your 3B preflop meh. Your range might be perceived to be AQ+ 10-10+, and you play it out representing the very bottom of that range instead of the top.

Given that line, since you have really underrepped your hand, you've got to call the river. He happened to be at the very top of his range. Oh well.

The question is: Does he ever put you on a good pocket pair on this river, and does he ever expect you to call that river bet for a chop (esp. given your tight image)?! Nope. Hes expecting to fold out your naked aces and save the chop, which given how much of your range this comprises after you check the flop and turn, looks like a pretty good bet for him on the river even playing board. I really doubt he thought mid-pocket pairs comprised much of your range given how it played out.