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Flop The World, What Now? Flop The World, What Now?
View Poll Results: You flop the nuts OOP, multiway, against a LAG. When do you spring into action?
Make a small bet on the flop, hope for a reraise or at least a call.
2 25.00%
Make a big bet on the flop. Hope it just looks like a Cbet bluff.
1 12.50%
Check through the flop, check through the turn, hope LAG bets for you.
4 50.00%
Check it all the way the river, hoping for LAG to take a stab after 3 streets of weakness.
1 12.50%

02-18-2012 , 04:39 AM
I flopped a huge monster the other night, and I don't think I necessarily played it correctly. I thought I'd take a poll to see what the consensus is for extracting the most value after flopping the absolute nuts, multiway, with a LAG to act behind.

I'll detail out my specific hand as an example, because I'd like some critique on my thinking in the hand. I realize both that this hand happens extremely rarely, AND its difficult to get paid, so alone its not threadworthy. I'm broadening out the discussion to include any nut hand OOP vs LAG, a dream scenario.

This hand is at a 1-2 home game. Tends toward loose-aggressive. Pots frequently large. Hero covers all V's, All V's have $4-500.

V1 - TAG, able to make the biggest plays at the table, knows how to make well-timed, large bets and actually get folds. Good instincts.

V2 - Not too tight, also not too aggressive. Ability to hop away from trouble while getting it all in good is enough to make him a winning player, at least tonight.

V3 - Very loose aggressive. Predictably attacks limped pots from position. Attacks weakness post flop but not every time. Sticky.

Hero - After some spewy hands in first few orbits, Hero has gotten himself off tilt and is now showing down premium hands. Image at this point is downright nitty, and aggressive.

3 limpers, hero has AA in HJ. Raises $18. V3 OTB calls. V1 UTG calls. 1 limp fold. V2 MP+1 calls.

Flop ($77) A?A7

2 Checks. Hero bets $25. 3 folds.

My thought process is this: On this board, its unlikely anyone else is going to bet for me. Betting actually disguises my hand. It looks more like I have another decent pocket pair which I'm cbetting than it looks like I have an A (let alone 2) since the "standard" play here would be to check such a huge hand. With a pair on the board, its unlikely s are betting, but they might call if they do put me on a pair they can draw out on, or V3 could call and try and try and bluff that he has an A (I do feel he's capable of attempting this move if he puts me on a lesser pair). Lastly, V2, sitting directly to my right, starts jokingly whispering in my ear saying I need to bet now and get everyone out of the hand. Its in character for this V to be trying to help me out (after my earlier spewage) but its also in character for him to be trying to get me to bet if he has 77.

In hindsight, a $25 bet looks strong. I'm thinking now that my best shot at getting any more out of this hand MIGHT have come from checking the flop, and checking the turn, and hoping LAG bets and other Vs call the LAG thinking he's FOS again.

How would you play it?
Flop The World, What Now? Quote
02-18-2012 , 04:43 AM
Look the other players dead in their eyes and slowly tap the table for a check...
Flop The World, What Now? Quote
02-18-2012 , 05:26 AM
Hero flops quads? Or is flop A77?
Flop The World, What Now? Quote
02-18-2012 , 05:47 AM
It really depends on how aggressive the LAG is. If your read is hes stealing the pot when checked to a high % of the time if we check, we should check. However, I don't think that's the case on this board.

Based on dynamics I think you played it fine. Were cbetting a high % of time on this board, and were sizing it small if we have an ace, a PP, or if we have king high. (right?) There is some value vs a flush draw, and maybe a 7x will call then bet/fold other streets.

The only time we are getting any additional value from checking is if someone turns a broadway pair, or if someone decides to get bluffy on the turn. In a table full of drunk maniacs, sure. But on board that hits your perceived range and only 1 LAG, I like the bet and bet sizing.
Flop The World, What Now? Quote
02-18-2012 , 06:46 AM
I'm checking here. Let someone catch up on the turn. 6's are going to fold to your bet on the flop, but if a 6 peels off on the turn, you are taking their stack.
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02-18-2012 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerYoungster
Hero flops quads? Or is flop A77?
Hero flops quads.

Quote:
It really depends on how aggressive the LAG is. If your read is hes stealing the pot when checked to a high % of the time if we check, we should check. However, I don't think that's the case on this board.
I agree with this. I don't know that LAG bets this one, and we just bet and get folds on the river instead of the flop if we wait for LAG's bet. No real difference in that case.

Interestingly, I think with this particular villain I might have been able to suck him in with a bigger bet. Conventional wisdom says if he's not calling $25 he's not calling $75, but the big bet has two things going for it here. This LAG is particularly drawn to big pots, and a pot sized bet makes it look like I might be scared and trying to get folds, i.e looks weak. If I'm taking this line and I get called, I'm definitely c/c'ing turn, and trying to make a good inducing bet on the river (1/2 pot would do it). LAG being sticky MIGHT mean he tries a huge river bluff and I get paid... if he calls the first bet.
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02-18-2012 , 02:48 PM
this is relatively meaningless without taking into account heros image.

for me, i'm firing a lot.
i'm firing at orphan pots with air sometimes,
so obv im firing at this flop.

checking all the way may work for your image, IDK?
if youre a rock and havent made a bet in 4 hours, ya, check it,
but even then, when you drop the hammer on later streets your hand is face up vs. a decent LAG.

remember, the object of the game is to get opponents entire stack in.
whats the best line to accomplish that?

checking all the way?
LOL
Flop The World, What Now? Quote
02-18-2012 , 04:30 PM
OP said his current image is "nitty", so I think you have to check. It's fuuny how certain hands you always remember. Over 20 years ago, I was playing 10/20 limit in L.A. I raised AA, got called by the whole table and flopped quadzilla and BET! Everybody folded, DOH! I also felt like a blew a chance to make $ on later streets.
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