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Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board?

11-08-2013 , 04:51 AM
Hero: Straightforward tight-aggressive player. Occasionally makes moves but usually just plays ABC. Has history with villain.

Villain: Good LAG. Plays live, online, and deals for some local home games. Has respect for hero's play, but is not afraid to make moves.

$1/2 NL home game (6 handed)

SB
BB Villain ($400)
UTG Hero ($500)
MP
LP
Button

Hero is dealt 55

Hero calls $2, MP folds, LP button and SB call, BB Villain checks.

Flop ($10): 37Q

Everyone checks.

Turn ($10): 5

SB checks, Villain bets $6, Hero raises to $20, folds to Villain, Villain calls.

River ($50): 9

Villain checks, Hero bets $30, Villain raises to $125. Hero?

Should Hero ever fold here?
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 04:54 AM
no, you should never fold unless you are up against OMC and even then, i'd call for that price.

the argument is whether or not you should raise.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 04:55 AM
shove

he can have two pair and 33 enough for you to get value
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 04:56 AM
Fold.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 04:59 AM
Call

I'd also raise preflop
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
Fold.
why
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
why
your hand is no good

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
shove

he can have two pair and 33 enough for you to get value
you have a long way to go
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:04 AM
fold because your hand is no good

i know i have a long way to go to becoming good at poker, but i at least know you should fold when your hand is not good
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:07 AM
you're suggesting jamming 200BB into a limped pot with the 6th nuts on a dry board where villain's line represents something, and we have no reason to think he doesn't have it
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:10 AM
oh theres straights that i didnt notice

in that case youre right, shoving is bad
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:25 AM
if we give him a range of straights, sets, and 2pair it's basically 50/50. no way am i ever folding but i agree raising is bad

Board: 3d 7s Qh 5s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.649% 50.65% 00.00% 39 0.00 { 5c5d }
Hand 1: 49.351% 49.35% 00.00% 38 0.00 { 99, 77, 33, Q9s, Q7s, Q5s, Q3s, 86s, 75s, 64s, 53s, Q9o, Q7o, Q5o, Q3o, 86o, 75o, 64o, 53o }


---

74 games 0.042 secs 1,761 games/sec

Board: 3d 7s Qh 5s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.649% 48.65% 00.00% 36 0.00 { 5c5d }
Hand 1: 51.351% 51.35% 00.00% 38 0.00 { 99, 77, 33, Q9s, Q7s, Q5s, Q3s, 86s, 75s, 64s, Q9o, Q7o, Q5o, Q3o, 86o, 75o, 64o }


I didn't put in QQ because I think he never has it. I also think this range is too wide but he's in the BB so he could have anything. If he put in KQ we have 57% but don't expect him to have that too often.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco
if we give him a range of straights, sets, and 2pair it's basically 50/50. no way am i ever folding but i agree raising is bad

Board: 3d 7s Qh 5s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.649% 50.65% 00.00% 39 0.00 { 5c5d }
Hand 1: 49.351% 49.35% 00.00% 38 0.00 { 99, 77, 33, Q9s, Q7s, Q5s, Q3s, 86s, 75s, 64s, 53s, Q9o, Q7o, Q5o, Q3o, 86o, 75o, 64o, 53o }


---

74 games 0.042 secs 1,761 games/sec

Board: 3d 7s Qh 5s 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.649% 48.65% 00.00% 36 0.00 { 5c5d }
Hand 1: 51.351% 51.35% 00.00% 38 0.00 { 99, 77, 33, Q9s, Q7s, Q5s, Q3s, 86s, 75s, 64s, Q9o, Q7o, Q5o, Q3o, 86o, 75o, 64o }


I didn't put in QQ because I think he never has it. I also think this range is too wide but he's in the BB so he could have anything. If he put in KQ we have 57% but don't expect him to have that too often.
He's a 'lag who isn't afraid to make a move.'

Needs to be some air in that range.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
He's a 'lag who isn't afraid to make a move.'

Needs to be some air in that range.
even more reason to call
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco
even more reason to call
yeah, i agree that it's a call.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
He's a 'lag who isn't afraid to make a move.'

Needs to be some air in that range.
Yeah, if he's BB he can pick up a lot of draws OTT to bet/call with a plan to check/raise bluff OTR. A hand like 4s2s has a ton of outs that just whiffed.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 07:41 PM
lol at this silliness
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-08-2013 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
lol at this silliness
lol at you saying fold without giving a reason other than "our hand is no good"
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Foley
Yeah, if he's BB he can pick up a lot of draws OTT to bet/call with a plan to check/raise bluff OTR. A hand like 4s2s has a ton of outs that just whiffed.
42ss is a pretty hand that goes into the muck
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zxing
Hero: Straightforward tight-aggressive player. Occasionally makes moves but usually just plays ABC.
If he knows what he's doing (and I would think that he does from your description), your range basically consists of only sets and flush draws. Therefore, I think you can take 2 pair hands out of his range. No point in raising with them. Its straights, air, 99. I'd be more inclined to fold here with the information provided. If you have some kind of read or history with V that says otherwise, that could change things. If he was a fish, i'd snap it.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 04:36 PM
Snap call or snap shove.

GET IT IN.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 05:17 PM
Based on villains description this is a super easy call. I wouldn't shove though I highly doubt you're getting called by worse.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 05:19 PM
Snapple. nh sir.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 06:44 PM
Hand reading FTL.

Get shown 86 like 80% of the time and call it a "cooler."

Or worse, jam into it and call it a "cooler."

LOL.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Taco
lol at you saying fold without giving a reason other than "our hand is no good"
HU4ROLLZ?
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote
11-09-2013 , 07:52 PM
LOL at this ever being a shove for value! If Villain is as described, he has to know we have a real hand on the turn and is absolutely calling with implied odds on the turn knowing he can check raise the river, knowing you as well as you say he does. Has Villain ever exploited you in this spot? Villain has 68. If you are calling, with the mindset 'I'm probably beat here', then it's a fold. Otherwise you're a fish.

I think we can rule out 46, he would have 3B the turn in that spot as well as never checking QQ and 99/77 pre based on his 'good LAG image' alone, and 99 is ruled out again on the turn. Don't see Villain ever calling your raise with 99 here and would absolutely 3B 77 if he'd decided to play a pair fishy pre. Don't think we can quite rule out 33 but he has to know you have a hand on the turn, otherwise he would have 3B with that also. Why check/raise the river with 33 when he could have 3B the turn?

He in all probability doesn't have a made hand until the river. His raise is 68 almost always. If he shows up with anything else (like 42ss) then your description of him is off and you need to reevaluate.

But to answer your question: YES.

Last edited by jjjjudas; 11-09-2013 at 08:10 PM.
Facing big check-raise on river with turned set on semi-wet board? Quote

      
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