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Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range?

11-26-2014 , 04:50 PM
On the one hand, I wonder if this is an uninteresting topic with an easy answer. On the other hand, if I was sure it wasn't a problem, I wouldn't ask and even if it is trivially easy to answer, there might be some interesting tangents that come from bothering to ask.

First we have to come up with a definition of spaz within a poker context. I've generally taken it to mean a reckless and unwarranted aggression (a bet or a raise), usually an overbet, which usually doesn't (or shouldn't) make sense to an opponent.

While I can bluff, I'm never reckless about it. I never make a "I can't take it anymore" shove. That may make me more predictable, but does it make me too predictable?

Note: I am aware that "spaz" is considered an offensive term in the UK, but it seems to be embedded in online poker slang, so apologies to any Brits who are uncomfortable with this topic.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 05:34 PM
I wish I didn't have a spazz range.



I think in place of a spazz range you should have what looks like a spazz range but what is actually a very intentional range. For me it's super polarized and heavily weighted toward the nuts.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 05:38 PM
Lol wtf is this?
Are you asking if you should make bad all in ships so you arent predictable?
If you're playing 1/2 2/5 and to an extent 5/10 you don't really worry about being predictable.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 05:44 PM
There is certainly merit to wild aggressive play so long as it is calculated. I don't think that qualifies as spazzing. If I ever do this it is simply to show off an image and then in turn exploit that image. When you are spazing lots of times you are making a -EV play, therefor I would have to say there isn't much need for it at all.

It's more about having the illusion that we are capable of anything.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 05:44 PM
I think the number one thing that matters is the game you play in. If it's a casino w different players all the time, no need to mix it up too much. If it's regs that know you only overbet ship it with the nuts, you're gonna stop getting called and you have to adjust. For example, I add semi-bluffs to my overbet ships but not really stone cold bluffs where I have zero outs if I'm called. That helps me tell myself it wasn't a spazz. ;-)
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
reckless and unwarranted aggression (a bet or a raise), usually an overbet, which usually doesn't (or shouldn't) make sense to an opponent.
If this is your definition, then I'd say yes, you should be doing it. But you should be doing it in such a way that when your opponent thinks it "doesn't make sense", he is wrong. You shouldn't be making bets that actually don't make sense; you should be trying to come up with spots where your bet actually makes perfect sense but your opponent can't figure out why.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
If this is your definition, then I'd say yes, you should be doing it. But you should be doing it in such a way that when your opponent thinks it "doesn't make sense", he is wrong. You shouldn't be making bets that actually don't make sense; you should be trying to come up with spots where your bet actually makes perfect sense but your opponent can't figure out why.
Ill add to this that you need to know if your opponent is the type to call or fold when confused. This will really change the situations you should be "spazzing."
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 07:01 PM
Are you not getting paid off cause your to big of a nit?
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK7749
Are you not getting paid off cause your to big of a nit?
I think I have to work harder to get paid off sometimes, including taking exotic lines against regulars that would be a clear case of fancy play syndrome if I played the same way against unknowns (I don't).

I bluff and I bluff often enough that my aware opponents know I sometimes bluff, but I bluff sufficiently infrequently that my opponents are probably better off folding too often against me than not folding often enough. But I know I could bluff more and there are posters who would be aghast at watching me play because they would think I am leaving a ton of money on the table by failing to exploit my image fully. Is it weird that I probably average no more than one all-in bluff for every ten sessions I play?
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyurus
I think the number one thing that matters is the game you play in. If it's a casino w different players all the time, no need to mix it up too much. If it's regs that know you only overbet ship it with the nuts, you're gonna stop getting called and you have to adjust. For example, I add semi-bluffs to my overbet ships but not really stone cold bluffs where I have zero outs if I'm called. That helps me tell myself it wasn't a spazz. ;-)
I mostly play against regs and I almost never overbet ship it, whether with the nuts or as a bluff/semibluff.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 08:08 PM
"Is it a ever a problem that I don't spew?"

FYT.

That's what it comes down to. As a Digger the Dog, a great old poster, said "All my big bluffs are spew."
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
I think I have to work harder to get paid off sometimes, including taking exotic lines against regulars that would be a clear case of fancy play syndrome if I played the same way against unknowns (I don't).

I bluff and I bluff often enough that my aware opponents know I sometimes bluff, but I bluff sufficiently infrequently that my opponents are probably better off folding too often against me than not folding often enough. But I know I could bluff more and there are posters who would be aghast at watching me play because they would think I am leaving a ton of money on the table by failing to exploit my image fully. Is it weird that I probably average no more than one all-in bluff for every ten sessions I play?
i don't think its weird maybe a bit nitty but def. not bad i would think.

I don't know if this you but for me I know I can play a very tight almost nitty style at LLSNL and end up beating the game. But if I really want to crush the games I play in I can't do it with the really tight style. One thing to win $10-15 hourly and another to be $30+ hourly.

maybe you are going thru something similar?
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
I bluff and I bluff often enough that my aware opponents know I sometimes bluff, but I bluff sufficiently infrequently that my opponents are probably better off folding too often against me than not folding often enough. But I know I could bluff more and there are posters who would be aghast at watching me play because they would think I am leaving a ton of money on the table by failing to exploit my image fully. Is it weird that I probably average no more than one all-in bluff for every ten sessions I play?
Are you referring to bluffing all-in on the river or going all-in anytime as a bluff or semi-bluff?
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
Are you referring to bluffing all-in on the river or going all-in anytime as a bluff or semi-bluff?
Bluffing all-in at any point in the hand, meaning that I would prefer not to be called.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 10:18 PM
I wish I didn't have one
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-26-2014 , 10:59 PM
Pick ur spot. Make ur spazzing against the short stacks that won't hurt ur stack or against a fish. Against a fish, u control how much u r spazzing, unknown to u u might be ahead, or even if u lost, u will have chance to win it back later. Most of the players at llsnl won't recognize it and will label u wrongly. Only good players will know u will play the players not the cards.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 12:12 AM
Spaz shoves have a negative connotation. It's almost like an uncontrollable emotional reaction. I think it's in the same category as tilting. So, it's probably a good thing not to have a spaz range.

That being said, letting emotions into your poker game on occasion can lead to more creative plays. Like everyone, I play bad when I'm tilting from bad beats. However, if I get angry at another player for a reason other than bad luck, my level of play goes up against that person. It's not exactly spazzing, but it's definitely emotional. It's like tapping into the dark side of the force or primal competitive instincts. I think making emotional plays is different than making spaz plays or tilting. Playing with some emotion or heart on occasion can be productive.

If you really want to do a hardcore experiment with spazzing in poker, you could try meth before a session
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 01:24 AM
Not sure how meth would affect me, but I get even tighter if I drink at the table. When I go on tilt, my tendency is to turtle up and play tighter and more defensively.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 02:00 AM
You should open your game up a bit but it would be -EV to spaz. Not spazzing is probably on of the best things you have going.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123
Spaz shoves have a negative connotation. It's almost like an uncontrollable emotional reaction. I think it's in the same category as tilting. So, it's probably a good thing not to have a spaz range.

That being said, letting emotions into your poker game on occasion can lead to more creative plays. Like everyone, I play bad when I'm tilting from bad beats. However, if I get angry at another player for a reason other than bad luck, my level of play goes up against that person. It's not exactly spazzing, but it's definitely emotional. It's like tapping into the dark side of the force or primal competitive instincts. I think making emotional plays is different than making spaz plays or tilting. Playing with some emotion or heart on occasion can be productive.

If you really want to do a hardcore experiment with spazzing in poker, you could try meth before a session
Targeting someone because you're angry is just another form of tilt. I's just you t ha nothing to do with the cards or game flow. Its just you being mad at somebody and trying to get them. Maybe you're having some good variance this way but remember Vader dies at the end.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
Targeting someone because you're angry is just another form of tilt. I's just you t ha nothing to do with the cards or game flow. Its just you being mad at somebody and trying to get them. Maybe you're having some good variance this way but remember Vader dies at the end.
LOL! If you only knew the power of the dark side Vader is saved right before his death. Just don't be The Emperor. "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus." The good variance in this area has been going on over 10 years. It's rarely used, but off-the-charts successful.

Edit....LOL..I just read a story from a basketball game last night that captures what I'm talking about. Kevin Garnett uses Philly hecklers to bring out his A+ game. "They put a little kick in my juice, and I needed that.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...im-in-nets-win

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
Not sure how meth would affect me, but I get even tighter if I drink at the table. When I go on tilt, my tendency is to turtle up and play tighter and more defensively.
I was joking about the meth (never tried it, never will), but if you ever considered a drug to help your poker game, I'd recommend mushrooms. Based on your posts, I'd say you play a deeply intellectual, very calculated, highly observant style of play. Your logic is among the best of those who post here. Other than DGI, I give your posts as much weight as anyone (on the top tier with Spike, irtm, Venice, etc).

I'm not recommending that you do mushies. I'm just saying if someone pointed a gun at your head and said you must take one drug and then play poker, mushrooms would have the highest probability of contributing something positive to your game.

Last edited by jesse123; 11-27-2014 at 12:45 PM.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 12:44 PM
spazzing is slang for a reckless and -ev play.... our job as poker players is to always try to make the best play possible, therefore the answer to your question is NO. Spazzing is BAD. Spaz=Spew. Do. Not. Spew.

also bluffs aren't spazzes. Good bluffs are situations where given the information in the hand you feel like you can get the fold enough for the play to be profitable.

HUUUUUUUUUUUGE diff between bluffing and spazzing/spewing

Last edited by oh-nahhh; 11-27-2014 at 12:50 PM.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 01:12 PM
The more I think about it, the more I think the term "Spaz Range" is an an oxymoron. If you're in spaz mode, you're not thinking about ranges. If you're thinking about ranges, you're not capable of making a spaz play. Spaz plays are impulsive. Ranging is thoughtful. The terms are incongruent.
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote
11-27-2014 , 02:45 PM
Definitition

Spaz

Informal offensive

noun - short for spastic (hence apology)

Verb (US) - Lose physical or emotional control

That's the definition (according to google) is having a 'spaz' range a good thing??
Is it ever a problem that I don't have a spaz range? Quote

      
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