When you're playing a low stakes live game, whether it's at a casino or home game or whatever, do you put effort in to accommodate for the fish? This could include: encouraging a round of straddles, encouraging drinking, supporting their bad plays, talking non-strategy stuff to them like their life, holidays, women, sports, strip clubs, etc.

And second question: do you think it's worthwhile for all of us regs to practice accommodating more for the fish?

Yeah, of course you treat the bad players well (within reason). It's useful not to come off as a walking/talking personality disorder to others. If they're the bombastic, table-captain type, they won't need my/your encouragement or cajoling one way or another though. Even then, you want to encourage any/all people w/ money to keep playing day-in, day-out, so don't treat anyone badly really, unless you need to defend yourself, etc. Also, let rule/ethics stuff slide for certain new/rec/fishy guys if they aren't abusing it (string bets, tanking, going above table max, etc.). If they are abusing it, up to you what to do about it.

I laugh at all their jokes. When they make stupid calls and win I say, "nice call man. i wouldn't have had the guts to do that." If they win a big hand from weeks prior I always mention it: "remember that 2/4 straight from last month when you took down 1000?"

Um, of course? Like I'm wondering what the counter-argument might be that this would even be a thread.

When Black Friday hit, a lot of the online to live conversion threads talked heavily about the need for social skills in live play. Heck, I would argue that the spread of non-chatting mega-multi tablers was one of the reasons many fish quit playing online. It wasn't just that their money didn't last, as they could play low enough that the losses never hurt, it was that they didn't get the poker social experience, so it was boring to them.

I enjoy “accomodating” the fish. Heck some of the biggest fish are insanely interesting people. Good luck finding or being wanted in a home game if these things don’t come naturally.

Absutely yes. You don't want to be one of those pricks sitting there all serious with sunglasses never saying a word. It creates a serious atmosphere and makes fish want to transfer tables. I've seen fish leave tables many times because regs are rude to them or just not friendly enough. These are typically bad regs as every good reg knows it is in their interest to create a friendly atmosphere. You want people having fun not trying to win money.

Some "pros" and aspiring grinders are so bad for the game, it hurts to be at the table with them. It's incredible how some of them analyze every big hand aloud, as if using big words and poker slang (jam, min-raise, it's the worst hand I could have, range, position, etc) makes them cool at the table. Yes, sometimes these are going to slip out, but I feel like yelling at the ones who feel the need to talk like this all the time to prove they are the smartest one at the table. You don't need to analyze hands that happened hours ago and talk about how you were thinking in the hand. They have no idea what they are doing, and how they are destroying the game, when they talk strategy and analysis and math.

When there are people spewing chips at the table, you just have to make it fun for them. Talk in their language about topics they want to talk about. Comment on their nice clothes/jewelry. Talk about sports. Talk about the games on TV. Ask them about their families. Make them forget about money. Make them feel like throwing chips around is what poker is about. Make them feel like you're there to gamble with them. Actually say the words "gamble" or "let's gamble" or "here to gamble." Make them feel like they get to see a lot of relatively cheap flops. Truly feel happy for them when they win a pot. Compliment them on any good calls they make. Talk about how you love how they seem to throw money around like it doesn't mean anything to them. Make them feel like the big shot at the table playing with little pocket money with little kids. Talk about how poker is all about getting lucky and how you wish you were lucky like them.

Silent games are the worst. They've increased in number tremendously. So many serious "pros" nowadays. I mean, yes, there are always going to be serious people at the poker table. But don't make it seem like poker is the only thing you ever do or think about. Actually smile and be friendly. Headphones are the worst.

Excellent comment, the Machievellian guide for dealing with fish lol

I agree with most of what spirit123 says here, but, some of the more extreme comments (e.g. "poker is all about getting lucky and how you wish you were lucky like them") can come across as patronizing, depending on how they are delivered. If you overdo it, you come across as a huge predatory douche. Be social. You can even be a little fake in your defense of bad play. But don't sound like a caretaker of the developmentally disabled. Fish tend to be smart enough to pick up on that.

Yep, it's all in the delivery.

A lot of times, something like, "man you are hitting a lot of flops" is enough to get them wanting to see every single flop.

Poker's a Machiavellian game. There are so many layers.

Sometimes, it's too much though and I'd rather just be quiet and relax and not manipulate. Manipulating takes so much energy and thinking and observation.

Agree with both Spirit and Garlick.

Its important as f--- in a livesetting to be social, talk about girls, sports,sportsbetting or whatever with the other players (especially fish of course, but really anybody)- but at the same time its crucial to be authentic, real and not overdo it. As Garlick pointed out, fish/whales are often not dumb people- they can sense false actresses more easily than you may think.

I am naturally an outgoing person, so this part have always been one of my strengths in the livepoker world. One of the benefits of this is that i often get paid off an insane amount on my big hands taking my slightly OMC/tight image into account. Some of my pokerfriends with a natural looser more spazzy playing style than me often says that they simply cant believe how i manage to get paid off as often as i do on my nutted hands, over and over again. Its several explenations to that, but one of them is that i get people curious due to the social easy going person i am when i play. Another is that people is genuine about liking to have me at the table (even though they know i am a winning player), and the fish/whales dont mind losing money to me. I cant count on my fingers how often different whales have made a big rivercall against me when i have it- and as they toss the chips in says something like (i dont mind either way, the money goes to a good case/ Petrucci anyway).

And yeah before i forget it: to me it have been a rule for a long time that i really stretch myself when it comes to do what the biggest fish/whales want to. As long as its not crossing any rules or anything like that obviously. I straddle once in a while when they ask me to if they are in an extra gambool mood. I run it 2 or 3 times if they want to. I take a couple of drinks or shots if whale asks me and want someone to drink with. I agree to put in x amount of money preflop if its heads up and then just run the cards out once in a while if they want to. Basically its so much future EV to keep the whales happy its the biggest no-brainer in the world to do those small things.

To me, the single BEST thing one can do to "accommodate fish" is to shame the ever-present regulars who mouth off when they get out-drawn.


"How could you call with that [fill in to suit your own game experiences]".

"You only had [any integer less than 10] outs".

Last night when it happened, I told the lady reg "We were having a nice game until you decided to get rude with [fish]. If you don't cut it out I will request that the floor have a nice chat with you away from this table."

She didn't expect anyone would get in her face about her attitude.

"Isn't that better than tearing up a card? I have to get it off my chest".

[It was NOT difficult directing my gaze away from her chest, believe me.]

"Yes, it's slightly better, but still rude. None of us have to put up with that crap. Take a walk, take a hike, but stop with the personal abuse, please."

She stopped.

Fish appreciated being cared about.

If we could reduce the beration factor that fish face, they will play more, longer, and happier.

Yes, and be sincere. As many people have pointed out in many posts, Poker fish are often life crushers and are not dummies at all. Many times they've made a fortune somewhere and could care less about the 2-3 BI's we're all fighting so hard of.

Poker is a game and it's fun. Grinding with pro's is a fun challenge. Gambling with fish is way funner.

Whenever I hear regs talking about outs at a poker table, like it's some secret code, I cringe.

Or when you sit at a table and regs/grinders talks about winrates for their last 200 hours of play, C bet ranges, how they now are only working part time cause they win more money from poker to sustain themself and whatnot: i mean, its just crazy how many good games i have seen been ruined by those kind of clueless guys.

Happend several times at my Vegas trips too. We had this amazing game at the Wynn, with 2 or 3 huge fishes. Then one reg busted one of those and he left, wich the two regs continue to talk **** about the guy openly after he left the table. He was so bad bla bla bla, that was a nice christmas gift and those kind of things. I can see the two fishes are starting to get uncomfortable and starting to get kind of bored as well with all this serious poker talk, table now being 6 handed and regs berating bad players after they got felted and left the table. Regs then proceed to talk about how much they have won over the last 2 weeks, and how many bad players there is in Vegas during these days and so on. Long story short: few minutes later both big fishes takes their $1000+ stacks and leaves the game. Well done boys.

So yeah, no doubt that _alot_ of players have a long way to go when it comes to these things in the live environment.

Yep, the whole false sense of camaraderie between certain grinders at a table kills the game. Some grinders only talk with other grinders as if they are better than the rest of the table. They talk in poker slang to gain a sort of fear or respect from the recs and other non-pro regs.

They want to "figure" out the game at the table. They want to explore all the possible lines. Then they complain that the game is slow and there's no action. They never learn how to create action. They never realize what it takes to create a good poker game.

Frustrates me even to think about it.

Lots of good observations here. What I've noticed at 1/2 and 2/5 games is most of the guys wearing headphones and sunglasses not saying a word are actually fish just thinking that's how they're supposed to look. I don't know any good players who go for that look. It's typically fish or at best like break even nits.

Where I play any night but Friday and Saturday it's hard to find a talkative table. It's really frustrating for me. I don't have the best social skills but if people are already talking I can usually add to the conversation. If everyone is totally silent I sometimes try a "hey how's everybody doing?" but get no response and I just give up.

Got any advice at getting silent tables talking? Because I hate these tables and if I hate them the fish must hate them too. I usually just transfer if I can't get anyone talking but seems like 80 to 90 percent of tables are like this except on the weekends.

I am the fish. I talk to everyone and try to be as friendly as possible without giving away any info. I encourage everyone to do the same. Make poker great again.

Playing the devil's advocate here: a friend of mine once told me "there's always going to be at least one headphone-wearing douche bag on the table... it might as well be you." His logic is that it takes energy and effort to accommodate for the fish, and it can sometimes make it more difficult for you to remember your own hand histories when you're too busy having a conversation with the fish, so it's easier to let someone else do the work for you and for you to just focus on your own win rate.

Thoughts?

I think the first thing is being kind to the dealer, and saying hi when they come in and bye when they leave. This sets a friendly vibe for the rest of the table.

If nobody else is talking, sometimes I just start a conversation with the dealer. I think it's much better to have at least somebody talking even if it slows down the game a tiny bit, because the conversation with the dealer gets everybody's mind off themselves for a moment and some times other people chime in, and this gets half the table talking.

Also, another small thing is how I throw chips in the middle. I'm always doing my best to give off a gambling vibe, even though I fail often. Sometimes, I say "Alright, I'll gamble with ya," or "Alright, let's see a flop."

I'll sometimes just look for the person who smiles the most and start asking them some random questions. Some people want to open up. Especially if it's like a tight/nitty person sitting to my left. They are no real threat to me, so I can be really kind and gentle with them.

It's hard to start genuine conversations with people sitting on my right. I'm there to take their money and they know it.

Sometimes, I'll start verbalizing my actions. "Check" "Fold" "Bet 40" Any words coming out of my mouth is better than no words at the table, in my opinion.

Sometimes, I'll just randomly straddle. It shows people I'm there to put money in the middle.

It's tough for me because people know I'm there to win and most of the player pool actively avoids playing hands/pots with me and don't want me at the table. Some of them immediately request a table change.

This is terrible logic. One of these people can make every other person at the table miserable. It's really bad for the game.

Nonsense. Like the fish can't tell who the douche is? They're more likely to pay you if you look and act like you're having fun than sitting there silent being anti-social.

It doesn't take energy to not wear headphones. Even if you aren't talking much if you at least smile and pretend to listen to the fish you are much better off than the guy intentionally isolating himself.

Pure BS, if i should be honest. You cant leave it to somebody else, cause you have responsibility yourself to contribute and try to create a good game. As i mentioned earlier ITT its also important that YOU make an effort,because its everybodys "job" so to say and contribute- but also because of the benefits that comes with it in all sorts of ways. You get more action if the fish likes you as earlier mentioned. You might get to know and connect with alot of new people, maybe inviting you to juicy homegames and whatnot.

Maybe you get more popular with girls because girls (dealers, waitresses,players all of them) like guys who give out to their environment and being nice to all kinds of people- not the arrogant silent killer in the corner that makes her day as a dealer boring as **** and helps making the table mood worse.Free tip on the girls topic: many guys doesent realize that girls as insanely intelligent social creatures, and they are very observant. They dont like nits in any shape or form, especially life nits who only thinks about how they can take and not give anything to the world. If you are a douchebag to everybody else and only being nice to the pretty girls, you are destroying your own chances. More fish and whales might observe the table youre on, and if they feel that this is a fun easy going table to play at they might choose your table instead of another one. If you are friendly with the fish and try to engage in conversations with them, they often will straight up tell you how they play,how they think about the game and how they approach poker. Do you understand how valuable such info is? How strong that is edgewise? The future EV both in life and moneywise cannot be underestimated regarding changing approach.

The way your friend thinks is how a true life nit is talking by the way: just dont give a ****, and think that good things is coming your way with taking short cuts,not interested in doing an effort,not interested in giving to the world- but instead being an egoistic soul.

Your friend have no clue about this, let me tell you- and i get pissed off reading about it. If you look at one thing every good and skilled liveplayer have in common its often that they really grasp the social aspect of it, and contributes with whatever they can to try and create a great table. Being a great liveplayer is not always about having all the technical stuff pinned down: its about understanding livepoker is a peoples game, its a social game- and the true livecrushers understands all the aspects of this fact and use it to their advantage. (And no, that doesent mean you have to act like Will Kassouff and talk non stop 24/7).

Without question, this is one of the most important things to your earn.

I had a fish yesterday who sucked out on me more than once and we were laughing so hard he came over and kissed me on the head because he felt bad! It was a GREAT table with drinks flying, people joking and ribbing each other. Very little strat talk at all.

People predominantly play poker to have fun, just like any other life diversion. If you can't concentrate on what you are doing and still make it fun for others, then you need to work on your game away from the table so that you can act and appear like you are just there for fun as well.

I can't overstate how important it is to be an active participant in making the game fun for those around you. Contributing to this site puts you in the top 1% of people thinking about your game....that alone (with study) should give you plenty of edge whereby you can focus a lot of effort on these intangibles. They increase your earn way more than any discussion of what hands to flat/3!/shove preflop EVER will.