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Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right?

07-13-2016 , 06:14 PM
I think it's OK for a good post-flop player to limp here because the obvious positional advantage, coupled with our good post-flop skills, means we can extract maximum value when we flop big and minimize our losses when behind.

However, like I said earlier, OP's post-flop skills aren't there yet. That makes this hand a fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamitontheriver
The truth is that a good player should be able to limp almost anything profitably here.
Given deep enough stacks and a large enough skill advantage over your opponents, I think this is correct. I think it also depends on what absolute junk hands you're going to trim off the bottom of your range.
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote
07-13-2016 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamitontheriver
Significant range advantage? With this many people in the pot equities run super close and 45 plays better in many ways than something like J10 which you would be fine limping and which is often dominated by multiple opponents.

The truth is that a good player should be able to limp almost anything profitably here.
Sorry I meant we are at a disadvantage (though I think you got my point). If we are up against 3 random hands we are 19% vs. 27% for each of them which constitutes significant to me.

I just don't see what special tools even a good player can utilize to make up for that. Even with position, ranges are wide open so we likely aren't extracting a ton of value when we have 1 pair hands.

I don't really see where we can flex an edge in this situation (this could mean I'm a weaker player tho). In my mind, if this is a profitable limp for a good player then its profitable for a mediocre player too. Because "good" players aren't doing anything different postflop, just trying to hit a hand.
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote
07-13-2016 , 06:57 PM
I believe good players are very much doing things different post flop than weaker players. Indeed, I think it's post flop that the major differences between weaker and good players occurs. And it is precisely those differences that can make a hand like 54o profitable for one group and not for the other.

Things like superior hand reading, superior person reading (as in being able to spot demonstrated tendencies, not as in having some psychic-like ability to divine the other person's thoughts) make a huge difference. Being in position provides an information advantage. Good players use this well and weaker players use it less well.

Of course, that doesn't mean 54o OTB is always profitable to limp. Good players also use their skills to identify when they can open their range and when they need to shrink it.

The all-in relative equity of the hand can be useful information, but is not relevant here. After all, a small PP is a 4:1 dog against AA, but they're still worth playing. Hands like 54o aren't as simple to play as small PP, but the principle is the same.

Figuring out what those skills are and developing them is pretty much defines improving as a poker player IMO.
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote
07-13-2016 , 07:01 PM
Bomb the flop
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote
07-14-2016 , 01:06 PM
What is stinkeye?
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote
07-14-2016 , 01:54 PM
A facial expression of distrust, disdain, or disapproval; also called skunk eye, hairy eyeball.
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote
07-14-2016 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
A facial expression of distrust, disdain, or disapproval; also called skunk eye, hairy eyeball.
Basically exactly not the facial expression someone who has a monster would give you.
Did I screw up flop, turn, river, or played it right? Quote

      
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