Hi,

I'm pretty new to no limit. I've been buying in at 100bbs and I'm very unclear on how to defend heads up against a 3b at this depth

Would it be okay to flat my whole range in position while 4 betting large only with my best few combos out of position (to better realize equity), calling with hands that want to continue, and folding the rest?

SPR seems too short and awkward to have a more complex strategy. Once we 4b, I would think we're pretty much committed if we get jammed on at 100bbs.

Ex: We open 4x from CO, btn makes it 12x, folded back to us. Being OOP I wouldn't think we want to size our 4b any less than 36bbs (or 3x). So what's a reasonable range given that if btn goes all in, we're pretty much pot commited having over 1/3 of our chips in. Should we still have some A5s, KTs, that we go with? What's worse it seems, is that much of our 4b value range TT-JJ, AQs, won't be doing well against a typical live (1/2, 2/3) player's shoving range

In position I can almost see having zero 4 bets because our hands can better realize their equity in position and again, 4 betting creates an awkward SPR

I'm very new at no limit and would appreciate any help or clarity

Thanks

Ranges will change depending on positions.

Thank you. I'm aware of that. I believe they also would change depending on rake?

I should've mentioned that I'm talking about live cash games where open raise sizing tends to be considerably larger than online

I guess my question is more about sizing (from any position) regardless of what ranges are. I don't see how we can have much of a 4b range that isn't super linear due to all in thresholds at 100bbs deep after a 4x-5x open and a +3x 3 bet

Or take my example of a CO opening range against a btn 3b. What should our 4b range be? I would think whatever it is, it should be hands we're willing to go with because there's really no room to 4b/fold

Id stick to linear until you figure out who is 3b lighter than QQ+. At some tables you make more flatting your continuing range or some 2.2-2.5x 4b size. I fold to most 3bs OOP, especially if they have rarely 3b.

4b spots you can probably go polar w/ very condensed sizings since I imaginge people are mostly shoving or folding at that point.

So I'd probably go top of range then some stuff w/ good blockers like AQ/KQ or something like that.

I agree it's very player dependent and against some, it's probably lighting money on fire to 4b with anything but KK+ and AK

But against someone who 3bets the appropriate amount, I would think we should have some 4b range that also contains some bluffs with blockers, especially out of position that could fold out some hands like 88, etc. The problem is, I don't know how to do this at this SPR. Because of the larger sizing that is common in small stake live cash, I would think we have to choose a polarized range with hands we're willing to go with while also sizing large enough so that when we do get shoved on, we have correct odds to call

Then again, I may be looking at this all wrong

Ya I agree with most of that. Vs a player 3b an appropriate amount I think we can size down our 4b sizing. No need to go 3x or higher if you are going polar. No one notices if you change your 4b size based on who you are in the hand with. They think it is more indicative of hand strength at first and then after seeing its not they really have no idea what you are doing. With the smaller sizing you still have some playability. Or you can size up your opens to 15 or 20 on a lot of tables. Most tables once one guy starts opening to 15 it becomes the norm after an orbit or two. Ive seen a few rare tables at 1/2, 1/3 where opens started going $25 to $40 in most hands. And then when they 3b you to 45-80 off that 15-20 open, the stacks kind of play themselves and your 4b size can be a jam or fold.

At 100bbs we don't need to 4bet 3x when we open 4x. Don't bet more than 1/3 te effective stack. About 2.2x gets the job done. At around 200bb we can go 4x OOP, but we have to size down more when we get shallow.

We can just 4bet jam as well. A lot of times ranges will be split. Hands like AA, AKs tend to put in the 4bet without jamming, AKo likes jamming a lot, and KK often is a mix of the too. In later positions, sometimes we 4bet jam a hand like QQ.

I would just study GTO preflop ranges, but be mindful of what your opponent's range should look like and what it actually looks like. Classic example is CO vs BU. BU should 3bet Q9s pure, high frequency 3betting T9s, J9s, K9s, A9s, A8s-A4s, and a bunch of other stuff. If they really much tighter, we probably shouldn't be 4betting hands like A8s, KQo, AJo, although in theory we should be doing this sometimes.

Thank you. Extremely helpful!

TT+, AQo+, AKs, some AXsuited.. and a couple other hands.. all player dependent of course. It’s small. We’re mostly calling 3b’s in your example.

It's nice you're thinking this through. Just relaize how many purely casual players there are out there who just play occasionally and like to get in hands and have fun. They're not always acting rationally. Just keep that in mind when you think things through.

In terms of the SPR, that's very much the issue in 1/3 $300 buy in. A 4 vet is pretty much fit or fold as the SPR is close to 1:1 by the time you see a flop. How much you should 4-bet largely depends on how you're playing with, how often you play with them and their playing style. There's often more than just one person in the hand potentially at that point as well.

I'm working on this area of my game too. I have two types of tables at my casino - the 'tough' guys and the fish.

The tough guys will cold 4-bet KTs, QJs, ATo.. some will 3-bet me with rags. In this game I'm trying to adjust by 'merging' my 4-bet range to include value like JJ-99, A9s, KQo. I haven't really employed this too much yet though. When OOP I still mostly fold. My calling range if I'm linear is like JJ-99, AJs-A9s, KQs, QJs when OOP with these guys. One guy in particular 3-bets light but also gambools and calls light and can be in there with 77, 56s, etc. I often pop him and gii as wide as ATo.

The fish game is a whole other story. 3-bets are so rare that I respect them and view them as QQ+ AKo/s with the wider 3-betters having AQs, AJs, and maybe TT-JJ. It's simply too strong a range to play against OOP. A lot of shallower stacks at this game too so IO are not as good. Folding almost 100% OOP at this level. My 4-betting range is so face up it's painful here. AA and KK with AKo/s about 50/50.

When you a more polar 3bet range your 4bet range can be more polar. When your opponent's are very stationy you may want to have a more merged range. When they are just super value heavy then you probably just want a linear range with only the top.