I am checking this AINEC. 7 ways to the flop... Someone either has the K or will get spewy, or both will happen. Check and watch magic happen. If it somehow checks through we can still build a pot/gii with two streets. And if we can't then it was never meant to happen. Basically what I am saying is if they aren't calling your turn bet I doubt they were calling your flop bet.

Someone didnt read the table description.
How many times do you see a 4bet gets called 6 ways? Of course there is going to be betting post flop.

I think i take back crai. I still like checking here because lags are more likely to give other lags action if you give a chance for someone else to bet. When a tight guy donks money in the pot it kind of raises a red flag.

Also lol at the last sentence.

This game as a whole is by far the most active game I play in my area. People buy in deep and reload deep.

Most of the player pool are actually good thinking players who play deep comfortably and like action. There are a few bit pocket lag tards. I tend to sit back and try not to OVER gamble but at this game it's difficult not to want to splash around in a lot of pots as if it were an aggressive bingo game.

Many times I'm in the co-bb with very mediocre hands 92s 104s 57o Q9o etc... With an ep raise to 25-40 and there's 6 callers to me. ( Theres very little squeeze success when the game is in full juicy mode.). Naturally this is a solid fold. But when you know if you bingo 2p + it's pay day. (Gamble kicks in)

There's def something to be said about just mucking my 55 pre flop here. And in most games I feel fine doing so, but at these super deep, over juicy, gamooler lag conventions folds are hard to find. ( probably a leak)

I was first to act and like I said earlier was confused/excited/ boner tilting table mode. And with out tanking to long giving up info on my hand I felt that a c/r would be ideal.
Thinking MOST Kx hands bet something here. The rock W/ JJ+ possibly looking for the Kx hands takes a 2-300$ stab.

I checked and action went as follows
Check
Check
Check
Check
Check
Check

I cried a little inside but hey.. I'm pretty sure my boat is quite nutty and I'm betting out on the turn. "F all this checking." Rings out in my head.

Turn.... K
Board. KKK 5
Now the boner is gone my posture slouches and I'm check folding.

I checked the rock leads for $450

Action behind him jams for $12-1300 all day and the rock tank calls.

Rock. -JJ
MP. - QQ

I'm thinking I was possibly destined to lose this hand.
Considering the showdown cards a c-bet for any thing less than all my chips is most likely getting called by one of them and game over.

This post wasn't intended for a "boohoo" for me look I lost a hand "did I play bad"
It was purely intended for deep post flop nutt stragety. I'm glad my thoughts were on point with the masses.

Thanks all

You should have gone all in on the flop.

-Captain Hindsight.

Ha.

I'm fairly certain i'd still be leading here.

I was hoping for some crazy ending to this... Like 'hero sneezes and accidentaly flips over one card. This works out to his advantage because he now knows he can let people level themselves into thinking he has A5. So hero jams and gets called by MP with AA and LP with AK.'

^^ lol

You know that stuff only happens in the movies!

Mine did the same as soon as I read that a King hit the turn. Puke, dude. Still checking given table dynamics.

I like betting small hoping to get a spazz with a K.

Just please don't ever fold...... lol.

Think about what the ranges of your opponents are here. It has to be at least 3 of them have pocket pairs. Probably more. So you are fading 9-13 outs and maybe more and worse you really have no way to know which ones (unlike fading a straight or flush draw). For this reason we can't check or bet small on the flop. Normally, this is bingo and we figure out to get stacks in by the river. But against 6 other opponents who's ranges mostly go to PP or also have Kx, we absolutely have to bet our hand. It's almost like playing AA preflop with a stack of dead money in the pot to start the hand.

I agree. Betting here is really a better line then the traditional low stakes slow play.
I love love love barreling with the nuts because most don't expect it and it looks so bluffy for the most part.

I can honestly say I ....rarely almost absolutely never sometimes maybe slow play......
Wishing I just over bet jammed the flop purely for value and get snapped by QQ and just "meh" at the results.

However I lost close to the minimum in hindsight so that's good!

I pretty much answered your questions already. Yes, I give 5 to 1 odds when PP are 22 to 1 to hit and will fold if I bet larger.

Yes, checking will sometimes end in the flop checked through. This i do not allow.

Yes, betting 1/4 DOES allow one of the larger PP to flat such as JJ and thus we make some profit from a hand that would otherwise fold.

And finally yes, I would be betting smaller here since any Kx will most likely raise me and get it on in.

I capitalize against all ranges with this betting line and literally never sacrifice by doing so.

This game is all about "What they have, and what they will do with it". And my plan above specifically details those facts out.





Hmmm,

I just saw the results were posted back on post 28. Do you still wonder why i dont let it check through on the flop now?

You might note that huge multiway pots are played normally super straightforward because EVERYONE is afraid of others having the Kx. So if nobody has the K, then it gets checked through. And that ends in disaster too many times for my liking.




OP, dont fret. We have all zigged when we may have zagged. Just learn from the hands and move forward.

exactly what I was thinking. People lose their heads in a game like this.

220/600/jam seems fine

id like to try to get some value from pps if possible, and there is bad visibility on turn cards vs 6 other players

CallMeVernon nailed this on first page imo.

ANL's posts on this seem pretty clear (and good) to me, seems like RP is just trolling him for the sake of it at this point.

The flop is almost always a lead Multiway and especially at a table like this. Most of the time the heroes will not be folding ANY pairs let alone a king. I don't think I have a check button in this exact spot.

P.s. - dunno if anyone mentioned how bad the preflop call is. The rock opens utg, if he's a true rock , that's means big hand and I give more weight to it since he's opening utg at this table. I think you have to expect him to reraise here a good portion of the time. You just got lucky that he got cute with his sizing and the whole world called. End of the long session of life your losing money on this call though

Yea let's check raise so everybody in the world can know we a monster good plan guys

I was in a similar spot a couple of years ago in a 5-5 game. Multiple 300+BB stacks. Three bet pot, I have 77. Flop comes AA7.

My initial instinct and what I did was go for the CRAI but this was wrong because nobody is CRAI here without AK, AQ, A7 or 77 and it allowed a smaller ace to fold (face up, idiot) because he knew he was crushed. If I led out I could have easily gotten more value and set up an easy turn or river shove. Alternatively the smaller Ace would have possibly raised the flop.

Remember slow playing is only good if it gives someone the chance to make a 2nd best hand which wouldn't be the case in the OPs hand or in mine. They either a) already have a 2nd best hand and will pay off or b) will draw to a nutted hand that kills you.

No you did not, and I'll explain why in details.

You skipped first part of my question:

Why is donk betting better than checking?

To be more specific, what is the EV comparison between checking and donking?

Comparing EV is the only way to determine which line is better.


Second question: why is $300 better than $200 or $400?
"And will fold if I bet larger" is not an answer. How much larger and how often will villains fold if we pick another size?

Again, EV calculation is needed in order to determine whether $300 is most optimal sizing.


Rest are simply trivial, especially the result without answers to the two questions.

Grunch

Well, we lose to KK and K5. We want to get the money in. Question is how to best do that. Table is super loose and it seems like people like to fire. We are 7 handed to flop. If table is really that crazy then we are not going to see 6 checks behind us when $1240 is in the middle. I like c/raising and getting it in against anyone who has a king. Seems pretty simple to me. It might get a little more interesting if we're up against anyone who covers us since there's $1240 in the middle and we have about $1800 back but that would just determine what our raise size should be, and there's a good chance it should just be a jam. Pretty annoying if it checked through but just bet big on turn if that happened (unless turn is K then we can just be oi)