2/5 effective stacks ~500

*this is actually a hand from another player at my table. Very good player who takes some unorthodox lines post flop and this was an interesting line that I wanted to get some opinions on.

-MP opens to 20 (Tight rec player who plays fit or fold post flop, stacks ~500)
-HJ and CO call
-Our Hero calls in the SB with A8
-BB calls

Flop (100) - K86
-Checks to MP who bets 45
-HJ and CO call and Hero makes it 215
-Only MP calls after tanking for a bit

Turn (520) - Q
-Hero jams and MP reluctantly calls

River (~1k) - 8

So Hero rivers him and takes it down but not being results oriented, what do you guys think about this play? I've seen this play in tournaments by pros (with 20-30bbs left) and understood it but never thought about using it in cash games before.

Initially I thought it was spewy but the more I think about it, the more I like it. The fold equity against most tight players who will fold top pair hands like KQ-K10 or QQ, JJ etc often enough, combined with the equity when called, bdfd and 5 trips or 2 pair outs, should be a +EV play.

What do you guys think? Cheers

Pretty atrocious imo. Why are we bluffing the tightest player at the table after he cbets into 4 people? When HJ and CO call they probably have a piece, which in turn blocks the super narrow value range we are representing.

The raise is ok in the idea of it, but the sizing is too big. 165-175 is much better I think.
I like the idea he is thinking about which is, bdfd, and he blocks 88.

However I'm not a fan of the play in practice here. One of the problems is, if I'm MP I'm thinking this raise is FOS and I'm calling down any TP+. Like who is playing 66 or 88 this way?

I'd weight the raiser's range much more heavily to stuff like 97, 75, and like the hand he has, A8 or A6 w/ a bdfd.

Also once I size that big on this flop and get called I'm giving up. There are like no turns that will really change anything and your fold equity goes to crap once a person calls you here on the flop.

I like the play much better in a tournament dynamic, but I don't think this is that great for cash.

Pre is fine, but wtf are flop and turn? X-c flop, x-f turn. I don't expect a K to EVER fold, given flop action, turn sizing of jam, and the fact that the turn wasn't an A.

In position this might work but oop multi-way it seems spewy.

We have a fit or fold nit leading into the world after his preflop raise and we decide to get clever oop. Even with a diamond turn, what’s our plan oop? How do we realize the added turn equity?

For every time this works, we will run into KK twice.

https://images.app.goo.gl/XDEpy4nQcBtJHzpv8

This sort of flop squeeze play doesn't work on this board and with this flop sequence.

This sort of play generally polarizes your range to sets & twopairs or combo draws. So, we need a board that gives us this sort of perceived range AND we need a range advantage vs the initial PFR.

To take an extreme example, a board like 10 7 4
where we can have the combo draws 89, 56, 89, 56, or any gutter variation AND all sets.

On this dry of a board there just is not any need to be c/r any part of your range unless there or specific circumstances to do so.

This also works much better being IP and having relevant blockers. Say, an EP raises, one MP caller by a loose passive player and you call on the button with 77. Flop comes 569. PFR cbets half pot, passive player calls, now we can consider a squeeze. We have blockers to 78 and unblock hearts.

This. If hero had position he could check back non-A/8 turns because no hand is calling this bone dry flop and folding turn. Even then, this play kind of sucks against main V's range.

Probably bad against the player pool, but I wouldn't want to play against someone who does this in a balanced way.

Works better when it's heads up not 4 ways although it always looks rather strong. I like it more with the bdfd and if we were alot deeper. Need more fe on the turn than half pot.

I see the logic behind it. We block MP's strongest 1pair combinations, but I have serious concerns on the amount/frequency of weaker 1pair hands MP will raise pre & cbet flop massively multiway with. Basically, when V has AA/AK he takes this line notably more frequently than when he has KQ-KT & QQ/JJ. We also need him & other opponents in the field to find a fold.

Turn shove is an absolute punt IMO. Villain is already halfway committed to the pot.