1-3 nlhe 400 max 8 handed.

V1 MAWG reg. I've seen him play in this casino as well as a card house in a different town. He plays 1-3 nl 2-5nl and 4-8 limit. I've seen him get involved in big pots with just one pair go bust rebuy just to do it again.

V2 older gentlemen haven't seen him play many hands. Have him as a OMC type

Table just opened up not a lot of reads on players. I'm not sure if they have any reads on me either.

UTG limps
H ~370 UTG+1 AQo raises $15
V1 ~350 MP calls
V2 ~400 CO calls
SB calls
UTG calls

Pre ($70 after rake) Qd 10c 2d
Checks to H
H bets $30
V1 calls
V2 calls
Everyone else folds

Turn ($160) 4h
H $120
V1 calls
V2 folds

River ($400) 4d
H shoves I had just over $200
V1 puts one chip in for a snap call. About $130 left not exactly sure about his stack size.

The river had me thinking for a minute. At first I thought I was good. Then I saw the 3 diamonds. Considered a small bet/ fold. Looked at my stack and didn't think the was a correct play. Figured all in was best. Remembered how my opponent played and thought I could get value from one pair. What I failed to do was look at my opponents stack size though it may not have mattered in this situation.

id check the flop, planning to CR vs a late position bet pretty big, leaving enough to jam turn for less than pot.

dont really understand the point of the flop downbet given your SPR. if you're not all in on the turn i think you screwed up. and the only way to do that is bet big on the flop or CR.

I would pot the flop
You are probably ahead, but you have a vulnerable top pair hand that can be outrun.

I don’t hear many recommend big flop bets, but I use them in situations like this. Would both villains call? IDK

Going all-in on the turn

That said, I don’t think you played it poorly. If a flush draw called your turn bet, it was a bad play. But he did call you, and it takes a better hand to call than to bet, so I would check the river as played.

Snap call sounds like you’re beat, but let’s hope he has AT.

Raise more pre.

Bet 20 on the flop. You’re five way.

Check/call a small bet. You’re oop multiway with a mostly winning hand. If Vs check back, bet the river. After the calls on the flop, I think you have only one more street of value. Vs can have 22, TT, and three combos of QT. Vs also call with maybe 20 combos of Qx.

I’d like a better read on the river. Is your bet a value bet from KQ? I think you only get called by better. I’d rather check/call.

Don’t include results next time.

I didn't include the result in original post, only that V1 snap called. I left out what he had or who won the hand.

Is my bet a value bet from KQ Unfortunately idk. I think I'm stuck here otr because of the spr. $400 with V1 stack between $100-$150. My stack at just over $200. I was going to call a shove. If I check he might check back and I lose value. Can I fold out better hands Probably not. Will worse hands call I've seen V1 call down with losing pairs before. Bluff catch Seems unlikely V1 will stab considering spr. The good news is he did not flop a better hand. As they say, I would have heard from two pair or better before the river.

Here is a question for forum members. If you are in V1s or V2s position, what hands do you put me on $30 bet on flop and $120 on turn. What hands are you getting here with otr

Grunch:

PRE - raise bigger. At least $20, if not $25.

FLOP - either check or use a different bet size. Either go smaller, like $20, or bigger, like $70. That $30 into $70 size doesn't accomplish anything. It's too big to induce raises and too small to deny significant equity.

I wouldn't expect opponents behind us to stab at it with worse value if we check, so I'd probably just pot it and pray no one has 2P or a set.

When we get two callers behind us, I don't love it. Would already suspect someone is sandbagging 2P+ or has a big draw.

TURN - either bet smaller to cap them, or bet bigger to get max value from worse.

My bet sizes here would be either 1/2 pot or 2x pot.

RIVER - eh... we're not beating much in V's range that gets here this way. We lose to flushes and QT. We beat KQ/QJ/J9.

If we check, he's likely to just check back a fair bit when the board pairs and the flush comes in. But he might bluff with J9 or bet worse QX for thin value.

If we jam, he's folding J9. He's snapping with flushes and QT. Maybe he calls with worse QX, but maybe he doesn't.

Jamming just seems like we're turning TPTK into a bluff to rep an over-pair or a flush and fold out QT. To make sense of that play, we have to think he has us beat AND he'll fold to a 1/2 pot jam, which seems pretty unlikely.

Think I'd prefer to just check and call if he jams. If he has us beat, not much we can do when we get to the river this way.

Never bet-folding here, as played.

Ranging you:
We are bucketing & cbetting small tells us little. You have good hands, but no reason to expect top pair
On the turn, now we can narrow to top pair, strong draws, 2pair+
Having the weakest of possibilities is why I thought you should check the river

Snap call seems like a diamond to me
You say you were going to call a jam
If that’s so, then shoving is better
When you get called though, I just think that top pair is toast.

My line: bet big on the flop, get heads up, shove turn has merit - but it also makes sense to get into a check-call mode with one pair hands and try to get to showdown cheaply.

OP, I noticed it way too late to edit, but stop including results, which include Hero's last action, not just the card reveal, in your OP. Wait at least 24 hours, or until discussion dies down, whichever comes later.

Well that does tell us he didn't have a bricked straight draw, and might give some clues about the strength of his hand. If your question was about the best river action, then leaving out villain's response helps us give more unbiased advice.

I don't mind your river bet tho I think the bet sizes for the flop and turn made this a bit of a handcuffs situation where it's very hard to fold tptk when there's a half pot bet left. Hopefully it worked on your favor here if V has a weaker pair.

H turns over his cards. V1 says your good and mucks.

People were saying that V shouldn't have gotten here with pairs. But they also said he shouldn't have gotten here with draws either. That leaves Q10 and sets which should have raised earlier. But V got here. I think I learned that poker players don't always do what they should.

I was surprised that no one commented on my read that V1 calls down with just one pair. Is this observation not important

I was also surprised people didn't like my bet sizings. On the flop with 4 other players I didn't know if I was good. I thought $30 was the right size to bet. On the turn I thought I was best and sized up. Most people thought I could have gone bigger. I can get on board with that. My bet pot committed me anyways, but did I not pot commit V1 Am I not using this concept correctly

Nice hand.

Mmmmmno. Speaking for myself, I said he could have KQ/QJ.

Mmmmmmmno. Again, speaking for myself, I said he could have some draws.

Says who Plenty of opponents will slow play big hands in multi-way pots by smooth calling bets when there are players left to act behind them.

That's not the takeaway here. We don't know what he should have done here, because we don't know what he had. He might have played it perfectly.

Less important when he's monkey-in-the-middle in a multi-way pot than when we're HU. Less important when we're starting shallow and getting to the river with only 1/2 pot behind.

He should call down with a lot of his 1P hands here. You're not exploiting him when you bet 1/2 pot for value and he calls with 1P. You'd be exploiting him if you bet 2x pot as a bluff and got him to fold 1P.

And you won't know here, before you act and see how they respond.

Why do you think that What was your reasoning

Even if your answer is "because theory says so", can you articulate WHY that's the theoretically correct bet size Or are you just trying to memorize what a solver would do in various post-flop scenarios

What made you sure you were best They didn't raise flop You c-bet 1/2 pot into four opponents. You look strong. Don't expect them to fast-play their better hands in multi-way pots.

Bigger. Smaller. Either is better than the size you chose, which commits you, but doesn't cap them or get max value from them.

It's less about pot-commitment, IMO, and more about how you're ranging them. Are they capped or uncapped Elastic or inelastic

Are we leaving money on the table by betting this size Could we bet bigger Should we bet smaller

Your bet sizing scheme was 5BB over an EP limp pre (too small, IMO), 1/2 pot on flop, into four opponents (too big to induce a raise and too small to deny much if any equity), 3/4 on turn (leaving 1/2 pot bet behind - not small enough to cap them, not big enough to get max value from their draws). Those middling 1/2 pot to 3/4 pot bet sizings on flop and turn don't accomplish anything. They look non-committal and indecisive.

Try going bigger pre, and either bigger or smaller on flop and turn, but with sound reasoning for whatever sizing you use, instead of using that bad-reg sizing all the bad regs use, because they're auto-piloting.

lol this actually was my attempt to use different sizing and not auto piloting. oh well back to the draw board.

If you knew V had a weaker Qx (or Tx) then your line is just about perfect. There's something in your read that suggests this V has a hard time folding pairs.
Does Hero have the Ace of diamonds It helps to reduce the combos of NFD villain could have, so then more pairs are likely.

Regarding the turn bet size, it's actually not bad, but you give V a decent price provided we are not folding the river for the remaining $200+. (So it's $120 to win $480+) But at that point, you are making a commitment decision so keep in mind when choosing a bet size.