Weekly home game. Everyone knows everyone pretty well and game is very loose and aggressive. Blinds 1/2 but $5 straddle is common, as is $10 restraddle and sometimes $20 re-restraddle.

All players MAWG.

H, $180, big blind. Re bought 200 three hands earlier after squeeze play with AQo in middle position an into QQ and got stacked on Qxx flop.

V1, $1000, was villain in squeeze play hand. UTG +1. Relatively snug player. Loves to see flops with any two cards in a limped pot but will fold to Pf raises. When he opens, typically has pairs, broadway cards. Will c bet a lot, sometimes small blocker bets but rarely spews and can be a challenging player to get all in. Will often bet fold correctly. But, when he opens Pf, often Cbets big, so can be a worthwhile target when you outflop him.

V2, $350, UTG +4. Loves to play position. His calling range is SC, any pair, qxs+, many unsuited Broadway cards. Probably folds most unpaired and unsuited hands for this raise.

V3, $600, super loose, raises atc preflop, super sticky post flop but very aware player. Opens to 18 more or less blind, calls raises with any two cards. Can literally have anything here (have seen him can 75 pf with t4s, with 83s, etc). With SC or big pairs, likely to reraise here most of the time but can also slow down for deception. And, he has a read on V1, knows V1 is decently strong here for his open in this position so is often player a wide range to try to crack an overpaid.

V1 raises to $20, V2 & v3 flat.
H has AdQd in big blind.

I elected to flat. mybstack was awkward to 3! And I didn't think I had Fe from all three Vs.

Pot:81 (home game, no rake)
Flop: Kd8d8h.

I checked. Over card and nut flush draw on a paired board.
V1 bet 60
V2 flats
V3 folds.

H?

Btw, first post, hope I posted as clearly as possible.

Personally. I would have 3bet PF to take control of the betting lead and it also polarizes their ranges. AP tho I would fold on the flop. This many people with an over card. Some one has to have it.

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Can't fold. Options are ship or call. $200 in the pot, $160 behind, I'd probably just gii and see two cards. Probably have some FE as V1 would c-bet this semi-dry flop with most of his range. V2 could have anything. If one or both calls, NFD has good equity against both of them.

AQ would be a good 3bet against V1, shoot any ace might work against that guy but not with the calling stations tagging along. Hate AQ oop multiway but at least it's suited. Worth seeing a flop definitely. Not a good place for a weak cbet, stacks will be going in most likely

I see v1 didn't seek or follow my advice so ap ship it while you still have a stack

As played, I ship it.

Fold pre

Yeah i said it

Fold pre! As played, ship it.

Tough spot. I'm probably 3-betting to $90 pre and shoving most flops. It is an awkward stack size because any 3-bet practically commits you, it's too much to shove pre, and calling AQ OOP against 3 opponents blows.

As played, I think you shove. We need about 35% equity against one caller. I estimate we get a little less than that with a calling range: KK+/88/AK/KQ/KJs/A8s/98s/87s. It's so close and you probably have a little (very little) fold equity that it's worth a shove. Against 2 callers with AK and 87, it's only a very, very slight -EV play. Hope you get 1 or2 callers with AK and/or KQ.

so, was the straddle on this hand? if so, given villain descriptuions, I'd just shovezilla pre with 36bb short stack.
there's already almost $70 in the pot.

as played, shove seems to be your only play

Cawl. At this point we must improve our hand to win and we most likely have very little fold equity. Therefore since we must improve to win, we want hands like 99 and TT putting money into the pot because when we catch up they become enormous dogs.

I would three bet pre, jam the flop.

Shove here.

Hmm, I disagree. Weak kings are going to hate our check-raise. Medium pairs will too. I think we have fold equity against anything weaker than KQ, and both of them could certainly be weaker than that.

If we call here, there will be $260 in the pot on the turn and $100 left in our stack. Are you planning to fold if a blank hits and they fire again? If an ace or the flush hits, are you confident they'll call your ship (particularly with a hand like 1010, which now doesn't beat... anything.)?

If we're pot-committed anyway, I don't see why we wouldn't jam now to maximize fold equity.

3-bet flop to 70-90 then shove almost all flops. With the straddle with are only play ~40bb effective so you have to play your big hands fast.

Ez ship

easy check/jam, with the player description this will never check through, so yeah nh.

With your stack I think you can 3 bet pre to set yourself up to follow through w/ cbet jam any A/Q/diamond/ sd, some gutters/or even rag w/one diamond flop. ~$55-$65

but overcall c/r a little tighter is a fine line to.

oh and don't listen to the fold pre nonsense. you get it in 100% of threads, in reality no one is folding AQs in a super loose aggressive home game, ever. and they/you shouldn't be.

I think this is a pretty easy shove with 200 in the pot already and 160 left in your stack. I think you have greater than 31% equity vs V1s calling range for only a 100 more.

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That is not enough reason to 3bet in this spot.

What do you mean by this?


I could see a case for raising, folding, or calling preflop but it is all dependent on V1s raising range as well as the 3bet calling ranges of all the villains in this hand. Based on your post, it sounds like we expect some players to call our 3bet light. If that is the case and if we are ahead of V1s range then I like a 3bet here for value.

Flop is a trivial shove. There is $200 in the pot and we have $160 left. Sometimes V1 is simply cbetting with air here. Sometimes V2 has a worse flush draw. Given all the dead money we have good equity in a 3 way all in even if one player has AK and the other has trip 8s. Only a very small percentage of the time are we (essentially) drawing dead. Also, a shove does fold out some better hands (pocket pairs lower than K).

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't think I had much, if any, fold equity PF and in a loose home game, folding AQs for one raise, even OOP, is pretty nitty (people who play too nitty in this game don't get invited back). So on this case, I don't think 3! PF is going to do anything but bloat the pot.
As played, OTF I figured I was 20-30% to improve AND win if both villains called and created a $560 pot, depending on shared outs, so I jammed planning on 3.5 to one pot odds for my $160. V1 re raised and put V2 all in and he snap called.
V1 had AsKs, V2 8s7s. Board blanked off.
The more I think about this hand, the more is seems like a break even or slightly negative EV situation for me, which highlights a leak in my game regarding jamming flush draws, especially in games where there is little FE.

I would not describe this hand as a leak. As played, you had 27.5% equity and you got it in needing 28.5%. Hardly enough to squabble over. Looking back, we correctly estimated your opponents range and still classified shoving as only very slight -EV.

Since you play with these regs all the time, they'll remember you shoved with just a draw. They'll more likely call your other all ins knowing you're capable of a big semi-bluff. In the long run, I expect your actions to make you money, even though you lost very small value on this hand.

You are overthinking this. In a loose game, where people are calling wide, you are 3betting for value with AQs, not bloating the pot.

V1 is the only one likely to have a hand in this situation, and you put him to a tough decision when you 3bet him, and he's got to decide what to do with 2 looose gambolers still behind.

Unless you think V1s opening range from UTG+1 actually crushes AQs, in which case you do fold pre.

3 bet pre, check jam is completely standard here. As played, easy jam.
Yes, you are never getting AK or trips to fold, but that is how it's going to go sometimes.

Embrace the variance and reload. Also, consider not playing so short in an action game.

I've folded AQ preflop countless number of times to a single raise and I still have a super loose image. Nobody would know what you folded unless you tell them. Just because a play seems "pretty nitty" does not invalidate it. Just range your opponents and act accordingly. AQ's equity here vs a tight opening hand range does poorly in this spot even 4 ways to a flop (close to neutral EV depending on other villains hand ranges). When you consider AQ is a RIO hand and we lack position or initiative then AQ does even worse. I'm not arguing that this spot is a fold but am arguing that it would be a fold if we ranged V1 very tightly particularly because of the preflop sizing which forces us to put 11% of our stack in.

If V1, the opener, didn't have such a tight pf raising range, I like a shove pre, $60 in the pot is worth it and you need to figure the flatters aren't strong enough to call, maybe one would find a tank call with a medium pp.

V1 is c-betting into 4 guys so it isn't the standard HU-c-bet-with-atc. It's a fold or a flat. The thing is, against "V1's flop c-betting into 3 players range" your Ace isn't helping. He either has AK where the A hitting is RIO for you, he has KQ where the A doesn't get you any future money, he can have AA, again the case Ace is RIO. So you just need the diamond. And since the A/K/Q are accounted for, what is the best fd V1 can have? JTdd, is he even raising pre with that?

If I were in position, and were drawing to the nuts, and some of the time the A would help me, then I'd flat, let anyone and their moms call and go to the turn. But you're oop, the flush isn't the nuts, and the A is helping minimally. So I fold.

That's not good logic. If we are raising, we are doing so for value. We want calls especially against live low stakes type players that can call half their stack pre with a pocket pair or AK and then fold post flop when they whiff (or will call smaller 3bets with dominated hands). We can't reasonably expect to get value from worse by shipping and we are risking $175 more to win a $60 pot.

Villain only needs very little fold equity to make shoving better than flatting. If the other villain folds on a blank turn and then villain shows us AK/AA then a turn call is barely unprofitable. If he shows us KQ then we have to call the turn too. If the other villain calls then we can never fold blank turns. If we call the flop, most of the time we will be putting our stack in on the turn vs made hands so we might as well shove flop even with a small percentage of fold equity.

Shove anything if V1 weren't so tight. I hate "wasting" hands like this on squeezes or allins or allin squeezes. But we're @ 90BBs we don't have a lot of options. If we were deeper and V1 weren't so tight, I'd 3-bet for value pre.

So I'd shove if V1 were looser, it's unique. The reason is for value even though I don't expect to get called. The stack size is making it awkward. With V2 and V3 not 3-betting I'm not worried about them being ahead of us but I really don't want to 3-bet 40% of our stack then be oop and airball the flop. If you're 3-betting you need to 3-bet pre and open shove any flop. So if that was your plan, I'd rather just shove pre for value expecting folds, as weird as that sounds. If you shove pre and get folds you win $60, if you 3-bet pre to $70, get 1 caller, then open shove any flop you shove $110 into $180 and if you got a fold otf, you win $110 from what the others put in preflop. Is that possible extra $50 worth letting the V who calls your 3-bet play perfectly against you otf? I don't think it is, that's why I'd shove pre.



I don't think we have any FE though. We're short and a tight player raised pre and the c-bet into 3 opponents. Is V1 ever folding to our c/shove? So without any FE I'd just c/f if you're not getting the right price and c/c if you are. And with RIO implications it's difficult to tell if you are getting the right price, it might look like you are but you're actually not. I don't think V1 is this great a thinker, but if I had flopped Kings full here, I'd giving the Vs the right price to draw to a flush, they think they're getting a sick price but it's a mirage.