$2-$100 Spread-Limit.

Hero has stack of $600 and solid image.

V1 is a young guy who calls way too loose preflop and has had a roller-coaster stack as a result (once up over $1,000, now down to $200.)

V2 is a a Solid Reg with a stack of $500. I’ve 3-bet him multiple times today, and he’s called every single time; unfortunately, I’m not hitting against him.

HAND:
7-handed. V2 opens in the HJ for $8, I 3-bet on the Button to $24 with AhQh, V1 in the BB cold-calls, and V2 calls.

FLOP: 8c9hTd. (pot: $72)

They both check. I have a gutter and a backdoor but recognize this smashes their ranges and puts me at risk for a check-raise, so I just check back.

Turn: 8c9hTd 3s (pot: $72)

They both check again. Is this a mandatory bet? I thought about it but wasn’t sure what story a bet here is telling, so I check again.

River: 8c9hTd 3s Kh (pot: $72)

They both check again! Do I bet NOW or just check back and hope I somehow have the best hand at showdown?

I'd bet the river because we have so many kings in our range. Not only that, but most villains will give us credit for a king and fold their PPs and A9 type hands. It looks super credible to 3-bet pre, check the flop/turn, and then bet the king. Wreaks of AK.

If you've been 3-betting a lot, then you can represent a pretty wide range. I'd probably b/f the flop. It's not like you have to worry about getting check-raised off a hand. There's a ton of turn cards where we pick up equity. If we bet $40, it doesn't have to even work half the time since sometimes we'll make the best hand. Plus, we've got position on every street.

AQ has some showdown value heads up but less 3 ways as someone may have a random 7 etc. I’d probably bet half pot targeting folds from some of those types of hands. You’ll probably get called by a 10 at some frequency with that sizing but those hands usually bet by the turn at least for a smidge of protection. You don’t need that River bluff to work too often to see a profit.

Why do these keep getting posted in the No Limit section? Isn't there a limit poker section?

I bet $50 with this and AA/KK/AK on river, probably not betting any of them before that (probably bet JJ and maybe QQ on turn).

With a blocker to the nuts on a rainbow flop, I think H should bet the flop. If not, certainly bet the brick turn.

How is anyone slow-playing this board? The turn can change the nuts perhaps 1/3 of the time. So if V's have anything, I think they're likely to donk on a flop favoring their ranges.

AP, bet river. The nuts haven't changed and K is range card for H.

It's not fixed limit. 2-100 spread plays close enough to NL it usually doesn't matter.

A spread limit sub-forum would get zero action.

Why is this an issue?

OP I check river and have no problems with how you got here.

The problem isn't that someone is slow playing something good, it's that no one folds one pair to a river bet after this action.

Interesting hand. Against two people I like checking the flop. After that I think it’s hard to bet turn given it’s the blank of blanks.

On the river, I think you have a decent amount of showdown value so unless you think they fold pairs (which seems unlikely) I check and expect to win a decent amount of time.

Fair point. But I think the upper end of Vs' ranges here is maybe weakly-played JT, QT, AT or KQ/KJ.

If H fires say 75 on river offering 2-1, are you calling any of this range at that price given preflop action? Maybe you're calling just KQ; the rest you fold. I don't think we have much SDV against 2 Vs. HU I can see checking river sometimes, but I prefer to bet.

I think a T would've bet that blank ass turn. If anything we're targeting 77-44 stuff and occasional 9x/8x that was too scared to take a shot at the pot.

So yeah maybe a bluff gets thru sometimes but often you're bluffing with the best hand.

45$, we’re targeting small pairs and we play AK the same way.

I personally think KJ or KQ would’ve bet turn but at these limits players are pu..ssies so who knows.

RESULT:

Hero checks back like a chicken. V2 tables 22. V1 scoops with 3c4c.

I like the idea of betting the turn. In game I think I would have checked and taken a shot after the K on the river, but on second thought I would check all overpairs here on the flop, so after they check to me once again I think it's safe to bet/fold the turn. Like I said I would bet the river as played, because how can you not on this card, while they all have to think you have AK?

I think your 3bet pre is too small. This is 1/3, I guess? Anytime someone opens 2.5x or 3x and I have a 3betting hand, I want to punish those small sizings by (at least) 4x'ing it instead of my usual 3x in position. They mostly open small to be able to open more and call more 3bets anyway, and I guarantee you they don't like to face those bigger sizings. That's why I do it. I just pretend they opened bigger lol. Feel free to disagree with me btw, but this is how I look at it.

The blinds are $1-$2. I think you might be right on 3-bet sizing—I use “3x in position, 4x OOP” and basically no one folds to them, ever. The only wrinkle is the $100 cap in betting on future streets due to the spread-limit rules; it becomes much much harder to bluff if your 3-bet + call already puts $100 in the pot before the flop comes out.

Recap: V "solid reg" in HJ opens to $8, H 3bets on BTN to $24 with AQs.

I think the size is fine, if V1 doesn't snap call any2 V2 will fold a bunch although maybe not this (because everyone always assumes they'll hit sets). IMO going any higher than $24 makes serious problems about 4bets.

In fact 2nd best thing that can happen is if you needle V2 on the river about the overcall with 22.

Awesome! LOL.

Yeah, makes sense.

Okay, so it's 1/2, then 8 is 4x. Then I stand corrected. Well, sort of. In my experience opensizings of less than 10 are basically seen as limps by a lot of live players, inviting them to come along. If 8 is not the standard sizing at the table I wouldn't often use it myself. So I could still get behind 3betting to 30+.

I usually miss spots like this. I think it’s totally credible to rep a king and also value bet any 9x or better that somehow got here, I’d use 1/3 - 1/2 pot

So in the same sentence you claim we can rep a king and get folds AND bet 9x for value and get called by worse.

Do you see the problem here?

It reminds me a little of the AKQ toy game where we don't bet middling hands since opponents have either the clear lock or nut low. Using the insight of the AKQ game, I think we could argue for betting both a rivered pair and (a small portion of the time) air.
Devil's advocate is to point out that given the action 9x is, by the river, close to top pair. But we wouldn't bet weaker pairs.

Very similar circumstances Saturday. I led out pre and was called twice, one in front of me and one behind. I had starters way worse than AQ. The board missed me and I don't remember why, but I didn't CB. It got to the river and I bluffed at the K. The guy behind me rolled his eyes in disgust at his bad luck and immediately angrily tossed his cards in. Other V folded as well.



They always include AK as such a big part of your range that you almost have to bet it as the opener.

I've been experimenting playing with a rule that assumes all checks are honest weakness. So IP, I CB that board and it would have taken down this hand.

Obviously, there are a good number of pots where I take a stab at the pot and get x/r. I'm fine with that. People in low limit way more often than not wait to x/r with premium hands like 2P and sets. They aren't going to flop those often enough to make an autobet vs a check a bad thing.

I mean it's ok as an exploit at the lowest limits to cbet too much ... but auto cbet AhQh on 8c9hTd after you 3bet is just bad. Yes, they probably both fold this time but it's still bad.