Game: 1-2 NL. I have 200 and everyone covers me. 5 players. $5 button straddle. I sat down recently and the game seems very passive. Very little 3 betting and even a few limped pots.

The action here begins in the normal place, not the SB.

After 1 fold, I raise to 15 with A9 off. The straddle and one blind call.

As you read the play, please comment on any of my 4 "thoughts".


Thought #1. Is this the right sizing. I think no. While it seems normal enough to go 3x the blind, I think most people who will put $5 in blind will call very liberally if the price is $10. Since A9 offsuit is tricky out of position, I should probably apply more pressure to get more folds or (even better) get more money in vs an inferior range. $20 or even $25 might be better here.

One of my weaknesses is playing OOP. It feels like I c-bet and get called by the button and have no clue how to proceed when the flop misses me. I feel as if players will call light and steal on the turn. Part of my inclination to bet larger here is to avoid this problem.


Flop is K53 rainbow. The pot is 45.

Though #2. This is a decent flop and one I should c-bet more or less 100%. against 2 players here. With such a dry board, no need to go nuts. Even so, I think sizing should be a bit bigger than some might think. Because I am OOP, I would prefer folds over light calls. I bet $25. If I were last to act, I would probably bet about $15. I also think straddlers tend to fight harder for pots, so a bit larger sizing will be profitable in the long run because they will call too often anyhow.


Action goes call by button straddler and a fold in the blinds. So, here we are again. I c-bet, get called and have no idea how to proceed. Simply choosing to always check-fold the turn is really awful, but other options seem pretty lousy too.


Turn is a beautiful offsuit Ace.

Thought #3. After more or less automatic plays where the only real questions is bet size, now I need to think about my opponent's hand.
Since I don't know this opponent, I don't know how light he will call my
c-bet. Some folks just love to float and steal here. It seems to me that
his range is pretty wide here., but obviously has a lot of kings in it.
If I continue to bet, he is going to fold a lot. However, if I check the turn, I think my opponent will bet almost all of his range. This betting pattern looks like I missed and am giving up to the danger of the A and K on board.
In effect, I hope to induce a bluff.


So I check. Opponent bets 40. So far so good. I call. I see no reason to raise here since I will not move a stronger hand and will rarely get called by less.

Turn is an 8. I check and opponent bets 50.

Thought #4. My turn call is not from weakness. My opponent should know that I have a hand. He should not bluff the river. Nevertheless, it is 1-2 and I see people make bluffs with no hope all the time. I try to construct his hands. Would he bet a good King again? Would he bet Ace-rag? Could he be making a bad bluff? I think all these are possible.

the rule of 3XBB is a fine minimum until a straddle is in play. Then 3Xstraddle is the minimum. I find 3X bets get too many callers at most 1/2 and 2/5 cash games and might go to 4, 5, or 6X the straddle depending on how the table is playing.

My goal is to take it down pre or get one caller.

You might not have gotten the call with a 4 or 5X bet, but it looks like this guy would have called pretty much any bet. Some people blindly defend their straddle no matter what. I wouldn't have open raised with A9o unless I had some sort of read on the opponents, especially the straddler. A9o isn't such a great hand that you can't let it go at the beginning of your session as you wait to see what the competition is like.

Most 1/2 games are mostly passive and most players call way too much. That's why it is easy to profit from these games, but you need a little info on the players before you go throwing around your chips.

Agree that the flop is a 100% c-bet opportunity.

AP and without any reads, I think you did the right thing on the flop, turn, and river. Sometimes poker sucks.

INITIAL NOTE: Delete the last sentence that shows the results. It will influence answers.

That being said...

Q #1: with the forced straddle, 15 feels small. You are correct that 10 more is cheap for the BU to come along. Seems like the BU should call a lot. When that happens, now the SB/BB have a better reason to come along. If you only go to 15, it will be a lot of 3 way pots. That being said, I tend to play fewer hands but for bigger amounts, so I probably just pitch A9o.

Q #2: 25 into 45 is still relatively small. A middle pair or any K might call, and you're behind both. It puts you in a weird spot if they call (like BU does in your example). I'd probably go 30-35, then give up if they call, barring a great turn (like an A)

Q #3: I like the thoughts at this point, I probably do the same with the check/call.

Q #4: I'm fine with the check call, but I'm not happy about it. The fact he bets after you called on the A turn is concerning. Most 1/2 players don't bluff on the river unless they think they have something. It definitely LOOKS like a value bet.


Summary: not a fun situation to be in, but I don't think you had to put yourself in this position in the first place. But then again, I say this as someone used to playing full ring games, not five handed, so my opinions on opening ranges and the like in a 5 handed game aren't worth crap.

I'm not gonna provide a full analysis but I just want to say that the button straddle is the creation of the devil.

In this case it turns what would normally be a 100bb game into a 40bb game for you... and you need to deal with a straddler on the button. Honestly just find a different game. Maybe some tournament players are totally cool playing with 40bbs but it's not something good cash players do.

Someone straddling your left is very +EV for you. Another player is putting money in blind and there's literally no disadvantage for you. Good cash players don't avoid profitable situations. You just don't want someone straddling your blinds, usually, although it's not as bad short. Usually you don't want someone straddling your right either.

You need to learn to play at all stack depths. Even without a straddle a lot of fish buy-in short or don't top off, so you will play hands at 40BB all the time even if you don't like to.

A9o from CO is fine, but I'd go $20 to give the straddler a poor price and hopefully steal the blinds or at least win position. He is correct to defend a lot of hands vs. 3x IP, although the hand he ended up calling with is too loose. Folding pre is also fine.

You probably don't want to c-bet 100% here. It's no wonder you have trouble playing turns since you're getting to the turn with a lot of air if you c-bet 100% multi-way OOP. The one thing that makes a high c-bet% good in live games is that people usually fold flops too much, but if people are floating you wide they're actually exploiting you and you need to dial it back.

I'd continue betting this turn and actually wouldn't expect a bluff too often since even fishier players will recognize that this turn is better for your range, he can value worse however and bluffs aren't impossible so you need to call turn after checking.

River is just a snap call for this price.

I can tell I rustled some feathers with my post.

There is a disadvantage and the disadvantage is that you're going to be out of position for the entire hand in a bloated pot if the straddler calls and he should often be defending because he's getting such a good price. And with the shorter stack depth play becomes more straight-forward with less skill than deeper stacks so a better player has less of an edge. It screws over the blinds and early positions and basically forces the action to tighten up. It's just bad for games in general. Doug Polk agrees.

I'm fine with people straddling to my right like the UTG straddle. Sure it decreases SPR/stack depth but at least position is no longer a factor.

You can play 40bb poker, fine, you can play 10bb poker. Whatever. Just don't expect to have much of an edge postflop or expect there to be any depth of play.

I have not played much 5 handed, but I believe it is very much like playing 9 handed after 4 folds. When I am one from the button, I have trouble believing A9 off is a fold. I just went to upswing poker and found a 6-max chart that says A9off is a marginal raise (raise or fold) from the cutoff. Since it does not discuss the presence of a straddle, their chart may not apply here. But all things considered, I have the straddle range crushed, so it seems like I want to raise more often here. But it is also pretty clear that this is a marginal situation and even something like the rake on a live game might make this a fold anyhow. I didn't even put this in my "thoughts" because I incorrectly assumed coming in for a raise in that spot was totally standard.

As for c-betting 100%. Maybe I was unclear. No way am I c-betting every flop, but THIS flop seems more or less perfect for a c-bet. The K favors my range and the 5 and 3 will not hit my opponents nearly as often as middle cards. If the board is wetter, I tend to check or bet larger and am far more inclined to only bet here with some kind of hand or draw.

Maybe it makes sense to ask.... When you are the preflop raiser and get 2 callers, one behind you, and one blind and the flop is K53 rainbow, when would you consider checking? Is this a "randomize your play" situation even in a game vs people I will never see again? My instinct is that checking that flop is an error no matter what my holding, assuming opponents who play at least somewhat normally.

FWIW, I don't like button straddle either. It is harmful to the blinds, especially if the SB must act first.

You don’t block any Kings and you have 2 opponents. Check flop and if button bets, you could check-call down depending on runout where button could have a wide defending straddle range and could bluff with air ( you had showdown value with Ace high on a dry board + turned top pair)

1) you’re absolutely right. You should charge him more. A9o’s value goes way up as stacks and SPRs get more shallow. Plus, you want to not incentivize btn to continue. So you’ll want to go bigger in order to generate some folds or punish people for gambling too much. I’d go $25.

2) bet smaller. Everyone will have missed this board a lot. You can always start to pile later in the hand when you are strong, but when you just want folds, you save money when you don’t get them. If you’re worried that people will attack your small bets, just remember that you’ll get a ton of value the times you do have it.

3) given the board texture, I’d rather bet small on turn and river to exploit live 1/2 players. Yes we may value cut ourselves, but counting on them to bet a worse hand is usually a foolish proposition. And as you mentioned, you never know if you’re up against a live 1/2 player who will bluff a ton relative to his value bets, or if he’ll never bluff. The thing that’s tough about people who don’t value bet enough (in regards to exploiting) is that you have no idea if they’re the types you should always fold to, or always call down.

So exploitatively, I would rather try to milk a king or A3 than Hope he bluffs.


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There's a difference between bad for the game overall and bad for you/certain positions. It screws over the blinds (not really in the variant where the blinds don't have to act first), but having someone straddle on your left is absolutely a benefit for you, like in CO with a BU straddle. It doesn't matter that that villain will have position in a bloated pot because you get to decide what range you enter the pot with and folding is free.

More money is made preflop when you're shorter and that's ok. This argument is like saying you wouldn't want someone blind shoving pre because it eliminates your postflop skill edge.

You realize you don't even need a skill edge at all to win money from the non-blind positions, right? People putting money in blind is just more money for you.

I agree with you in theory. In a vacuum, it's +EV to be on the button straddler's left, but also consider that now the SB isn't likely completing with trash (a common leak) and the game is now likely overall tighter. With this slight advantage you knock out the blinds who'd often be playing the hand OOP with bad, reverse implied holdings and you're forcing EP to tighten up. You're encouraging much of the table to play tighter. And you're shortening stacks. Is it really worth it practically speaking?



That's okay to you, so you keep playing at those games where it's all preflop action, stacks are short, and postflop isn't really much of a thing. I'll be playing at the game where fish are losing their 100bb stacks in limped pots with top pair weak kicker. By all means, stay at those tight nitty tables where you have your advantage with the button straddler on your left and everyone is 30bb deep.

+1

Exactly THAT flop for those reasons

Grunching …

1.) Given your honest self-assessment, I’d suggest limiting your open-raises to suited broadway cards OOP. This will allow you more opportunities to implement post-flop plans. Even though this is 5-handed, I’d fold, but if raising, size higher.

2.) I’d cbet small on this flop which hits you harder than your opponents. Do this with AA/KK/AK, and if called, size up OTT.

3.) I like the X/C, betting likely folds worse hands on a drawless board.

4.) I’d fold. Getting an attractive price, but vs. a passive opponent, I can’t see KX thin valuing given this line.

Welcome, OP. Please don't post results until discussion dies down, as they bias people's advice. I deleted them, but I see a lot of folks have already seen them. I'll comment without reading their replies (which is called a "Grunch").

#1) A9o is not a very good hand, but last to act before the button straddle, I'd go ahead and open it in a 5-handed game. I would definitely open bigger. $15 is in the range for opening size even without the straddle in a lot of 1/2 games I've played in. I probably go $20 pre, but it depends on the relative sizing to a normal open. What is a normal open here?

Your idea that people call light OTF to steal OTT in 1/2 games is way off, imo. They call light OTF, alright, but it's rarely to steal. It's usually either to draw or because they have a pair and think/hope that it might be good. If they are betting after you check to them OTT they probably have at least second pair with a good kicker.

Thought #2 seems fine, and I wouldn't bet 1/3 pot even if I were last to act, though others like that sizing.

Thought #3 has a bit of self-leveling in it. Checking is fine because you now have SDV, but have a hand that doesn't want to bloat the pot. V's not betting his entire range, though. Most Vs with a bare K will check back to keep the pot under control. His betting range should be pretty polarized and weighted heavily to value.

Since he bet a bit under half pot, I would probably call with my turned TP, even with his range weighted to value, but I wouldn't call another bet unimproved. Most Vs will give up most of their bluffs will give up once called on an ace-high board.

I won't comment on river since I saw results, so I'd be biased.

OP, here's a post on double barreling. It's a little old, but still very useful:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/7...reling-651776/

When I read it *mumblemumble* years ago, it really helped me stop thinking about cbetting in a vacuum and start thinking about it as one component of strategy for the entire hand.

Starting off A9o is one of those stealing hands IP in either a small limped pot or just a grab at the blinds. The straddle changes everything. People defend their straddles way too much so you are almost guaranteeing yourself to see a flop with a pretty dog hand. I might be ok with it if I had history on my opponent, expected it to go HU and still had position. The situation you are creating for yourself though is awful. You seem to know this so just avoid it. A9o is not an auto-steal.

On to the flop, cbet is great as is the sizing. It's not HU so be particularly careful here, it's exponentially more difficult to get 2 people off than 1. You're basically counting on both of them completely whiffing which is unlikely. I like the sizing and I'd say cbet here maybe 50% of the time.

On to the turn, this is actually a good card to barrel on. You said you wanted to check to induce, but he called your flop bet so he has no reason to bluff an Ace. He's telling you he already has a hand, so fire anyway despite the implication you are sending. It's fine if he puts you on an ace, because most of the time you wont have sht here and barrel anyway. Speaking of which I really wish there was some chance of hitting a backdoor flush before I bet.

On to the river, because the hand is kind of corrupted (V's line makes no sense) I think you can call and expect him to accidentally turn his hand into a bluff, meaning he has KJ and doesnt know what else to do than bet because it feels criminal to him to check back a big pair.